Ooh step back, India Willoughby is going to penetrate the Mumsnet debate

[ALittleBitOfButter]

Just saw on twitter that IW says will do radio interview about Mumsnet. Sorry can't link as on phone.

Yes Ekphrasis, I'm trying to understand if it's a content or (as I suspect) a tone issue.

I think posting facts in a fairly neutral voice has to be OK, otherwise we really are down the rabbit hole.

This could be indirect gender reassignment discrimination unless it can be objectively justified. A suitable alternative might be to allow the pupil to use private changing facilities, such as the staff changing room or another suitable space.

I believe that this principle was challenged in the recent case of a school offering such an arrangement. From hazy memory.... I think the organisation fronted by Gina Dunham challenged the school as in offering such a provision, this in itself was discriminatory. There may have been the use of 'apartheid' used though I'm not sure if this was solely within social media.
Hopefully someone can clarify?

I sincerely hope this is a misunderstanding about a tone issue - whilst that would make me antsy, it's not as jarring as the alternative!

Or do mn have a rogue admin, like that cough, coincidental, cough person on the mercure staff who compared Wpuk to racists...?

Maybe mn will start having "tweets may not be written by me" on their twitter...?

Ekphrasis, I think so re CBB, but do we really think that there's like to be any consistency there? What was OK last week is now an unforgivable sin, because that's how you keep people on the back foot and besides which option is currently most convenient? From India's perspective I mean. It's like when you had to use the asterisk after trans, and then suddenly the asterisk was transphobic, and anyone who hadn't noticed the change deserved to be publicly eviscerated.

India Willoughby on twitter:

*India Willoughby
@IndiaWilloughby
·
6m
I sense @JuliaHB1 sees trans people as crackpots. Definitely not women. Her first words to me yesterday ((pre-show) were “What are you guys upset about?” She knows the nuance of the word. The stuff on @MumsnetTowers is disgusting. Maybe the police will take action for hate speech *

I think it must be tone. And a bit of semantics too as jaycee set out However, tone can sometimes be subjective. It's a bloody mine field.

Julia and lots if people on her twitter threads were clear they did not find hate speech here.

India wants to pressure Mumsnet into censoring members by alleging hate speech without evidence, they are assuming they will get their own way because Mumsnet will feel threatened and not want to spend money/advertisers making their case to police or in court.

This is how abusers do abuse and get away with it.

I wonder if India realizes how many women on a site like this have already lived through abusive relationships and come out the other end knowing exactly how to deal with the same tactics going forward.

“What are you guys upset about?”

That did make me laugh. Poor India blowing a gasket.

This is what narcissist do when they don't get their way.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g I feel that IW has done us all a real favour in bringing this issue to much wider attention. Thanks, India!

The problem for those who love the limelight is that everyone looks at you, and may not see what you want them to see.

Goups of women are called 'you guys' all the time these days! Doesn't IW even know that? Personally I hate it but if IW thinks transwomen are women, IW will just have to suck it up.

India comes across as really unwell.

I address my majority female team at work as "you guys" all the time. Who knew I was literally killing them?

Yes AAK I recognise this behaviour and actually I think people like India rely on that. They rely on their intimidation triggering our memories and experiences of being abused so we cower and they can get their own way.

India and the other TRAs have their aim set directly at Julia HB at the moment. It's quite something to behold.

I would be concerned but I know Julia wears Big Girl Pants and will relish it, so it's actually rather entertaining

Also accusing Mumsnet of hate Speech and saying police should get involved. Seriously delusional

Questioning is not hate speak. Bullying, threats and attempting to shut down debate by intimidation is hate speak. If the police aren't looking into some of the things I've read online they really wont be stomping over mumsnet?

I think if people wail 'the police need to sort out these people!!!' Then they should get a visit to ask exactly what they think the issue is, what their evidence, is and for the police to have a look at what have they been saying themselves.

Then either follow up the accusations or tell them to stop whipping up public outrage /inciting violence/spouting guff (technical police-y term, I believe).

But then the police have enough to do, with all that literal violence going on (I mean the punch in the face type, not the hurty feelings type).

For some women it goes the other way though. We see it and far from it making us cower it makes us angry, and resentful of what it's doing to the women for whom it's triggering.

My initial impression of Julia's personality is that the harder they push the harder she'll push back. She seems the type to be annoyed rather than intimidated. Whereas if they'd been more reasonable she might have gotten bored with the topic and moved on this seems more likely to make her want to do more digging.

Within the transgender community a sinister movement has been allowed to take root and grow. It has used the uncertainty and
isolation of many in the trans community to foment a wave of hyper sensitive indignation. Many are whipped into such a frenzy words and meaning become meaningless, supplanted by a toxic, narcissistic and misogynistic narrative that rightly has many women deeply worried.
SevenHex's thoughts seem prescient with regards this recent comment..
twitter.com/seven_hex/status/985219754540625921

I think it must be tone.

I sincerely hope MN is not going to be the tone police. Because, you know, women being angry about shit that they have every right to be angry about shouldn't be policed.

Yes absolutely AAK.

Totalitarianism by TRAs is not good for any of us. I posted the following on another thread.

I found this written on Twitter, it appears on a JHB thread.

A good teacher advocates for critical thinking by facilitating questioning and analysis. A good teacher should also use the opportunity to challenge their own thinking and biases. A good teacher does not encourage hive mind buzzwords or patronize those who think differently.

Free speech, thought and a responsible debate aren't supported in the Labour party any more and that is why I no longer vote for them. This began with Corbyn and romoaners disrespecting democracy.

What kind of education are Bromentum and the Labour party giving? They encourage totalitarianism.

They have their sights aimed at Julia but she isn't going to back down and submit to their demands. So they will direct their rage at anyone who seems like an easier target. That is why they keep chucking their shit at Mumsnet, they think she is an easy target and can be forced to submit.

AAK
For some women it goes the other way though

It does with me. I respond very hawkishly to threats. I have been threatened and attacked enough times in my life and I will never be again.