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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

TRA infiltration

120 replies

Terfragette69 · 12/04/2018 21:41

How much do you suspect the tra's have infiltrated Mumsnet? I am in a group on Facebook and we have been discussing this and are very worried that we may lose this forum, it would appear Mumsnet sponsors are being targeted and money counts. What can we do? I have seen a tightening up of trans talk, which I'm not saying isn't a good thing as tra's seem to be adopting a cleaner approach, Lily Madigan is, by saying her followers shouldn't use Terf etc. To be perfectly honest I have not seem any transphobia on Mumsnet, but still we are being targeted....... What to do to ensure we can carry on discussing this issue??

OP posts:

yetanothertranswoman · 13/04/2018 20:49

With a few rare exceptions, I have only ever seen transgender identified people use that term on the internet

I have seen that word used by plenty of people online who are NOT transgender. I have seen it used on MN and elsewhere - it does get deleted on here but it's most definitely used on MN by some people and it is most definitely used as a slur elsewhere on the internet.

When you are trans, you get to see a lot of slurs online.

thebewilderness · 13/04/2018 21:00

Yes of course. Women wouldn't know anything about that.

yetanothertranswoman · 13/04/2018 21:04

Yes of course. Women wouldn't know anything about that

Why? I am sure there are women and men who are perfectly capable of using that slur and who can also see that slur when online.

BarrackerBarmer · 13/04/2018 21:31

At some point we should have a chat about what and who decides what constitutes a slur.

I consider the t word to be a slur simply because the people who get called this dislike it and there are more polite terms which are still factual that I can use instead. I don't use it, even in the face of being the recipient of slurs myself.

But there are other factors that play into what makes something a slur and those rules should be consistent.

If the rule is "I don't like it when I am called that" then this should apply to all - but what if that word is happily accepted as an accurate and inoffensive term by most people using it about themselves?

If it is "there are negative and unwarranted associations with this word" then again, the courtesy should apply to all, and the recipient gets to decide.

I hear "It's purely factual and descriptive" used to justify cis and terf often, when it can be demonstrated that neither cis nor terf are factual or descriptive, and are used in a way to dehumanise.

When a certain labour representative addressed me with the sentiment "Bye, TERF" I have no doubt that he intended it as a slur despite his protestations.

yetanothertranswoman · 13/04/2018 22:02

I consider the t word to be a slur simply because the people who get called this dislike it

Being kicked in the head and being called a 'fucking tranny' certainly is more than merely disliking it.

BarrackerBarmer · 13/04/2018 22:43

I'm not arguing with that.

Much as Maria M was the subject of getting punched and kicked and called fucking TERF.

Both acts are despicable and deserve unequivocal condemnation.

I've heard other people use the t- word for themselves and they use it with affection - my point was that I don't use it because I do believe it to be a slur. It is used by some to dehumanise and to be derogatory and I think that is more than sufficient for it to be rejected from use.

thebewilderness · 13/04/2018 22:49

yetanothertranswoman
You are being very antagonistic and I wonder if you might need to take a break. I just had a short one and feel better for it.

yetanothertranswoman · 13/04/2018 22:53

You are being very antagonistic and I wonder if you might need to take a break

I am merely suggesting that that word is used a lot out there when you suggested it wasn't.

thebewilderness · 13/04/2018 23:30

I simply stated what my experience online was with regard to that particular slur. Not that it didn't happen. Then you snapped at BB.

I took a break because I saw red when you implied that transgender people get to see a lot of slurs, unlike a woman who I guess is supposed to be so used to being denigrated in every way every day for the past seventy years that the things we are called are not even considered slurs any more.
I rarely see transgender identified males being called the T slur because I do not hang out online or in Newtonian space in places or with people where that behavior would be considered acceptable.

I felt myself being unreasonably annoyed when you interrogated me earlier. If you consider your behavior appropriate then I withdraw my suggestion that a break would do you any good.

yetanothertranswoman · 13/04/2018 23:38

I took a break because I saw red when you implied that transgender people get to see a lot of slurs, unlike a woman who

I didn't say anything about women. If you took what I said as an implication that women didn't get to see any slurs, then you are seeing an implication that wasn't there.

I rarely see transgender identified males being called the T slur because I do not hang out online or in Newtonian space in places or with people where that behavior would be considered acceptable

It's not that hard to see transwomen being called a lot of slurs and worse - it does happen in online places where feminists are found.

TripleRainbow · 13/04/2018 23:44

When you are trans women/girl, you get to see a lot of slurs online.

And in real life.

All the time.

All our fucking lives, it's relentless.

Frigid, whore, witch, bitch, butch, cunt, slag, cock-tease, dog, slag, crone, hag, slut, prossie, battle-axe, bossy,

"give us a smile love"

AngryAttackKittens · 13/04/2018 23:45

Can I just point out that women, regardless of what they say online (and I too have not seen the slur for trans people that yet is referring to used much at all here), are not responsible for men kicking trans women in the head?

yetanothertranswoman · 13/04/2018 23:52

and I too have not seen the slur for trans people that yet is referring to used much at all here

It has been.I have seen it. I have reported it.

MN are very good at deleting threads and posts with it in.

There does seem to have been minimising of it on here. People saying trans people just dislike it, it's a word trans people use themselves, rarely seen, an affectionate word...

yetanothertranswoman · 13/04/2018 23:54

Not an affectionate word - that's not what's been said.

But it does seem to be minimised.

thebewilderness · 14/04/2018 00:26

I am merely suggesting that that word is used a lot out there when you suggested it wasn't.

No I did not suggest it wasn't used, any more than you suggested there were no slurs against women.
We have a speck and mote problem here which I recognized and is the reason I will not be speaking with you again.

BarrackerBarmer · 14/04/2018 00:41

You're reading stuff into my posts that wasn't there.
I didn't say "trans people just dislike it" I said it was enough for me to know that it was rejected as a slur by some trans people for me to reject it too.

I do however know transwomen who use it about themselves and others with affection and consent.
This may be a reclaiming, much as some women ironically call themselves terfs knowing full well that they may be neither radfem, nor exclusionary of transpeople.
And this in no way grants me free rein to use it about others. So I don't.

Hellsbells yetanothertranswoman I'm trying to agree with you.

I also haven't seen the t* used on Mumsnet in feminism. I need to be able to state that truthfully and be believed that it is the truth, not minimising.

I rarely report any posts. This includes those using cis, terf or other slurs.
Part of the challenge feminist posters are facing is that many of us refuse to report and shut down the speech of others whilst knowing we are subject to a different standard.

AngryAttackKittens · 14/04/2018 00:51

I only report obvious trolling, and even that rarely.

LangCleg · 14/04/2018 09:40

If I'm going to be horribly honest, I do find it infuriating when TS or TIM people speak about the slurs people call them as though it's something that women wouldn't know anything about. It always makes me want to say...

"Welcome to gender. What did you think it would be? A free and liberating expression of your inner identity? Well, no, sorry. It's a socially imposed power system where you've just chosen the no power option and men feel free to abuse you. We did try to tell you but you didn't listen."

(Not you personally or what you've said here, yetanother, just in general.)

AngryAttackKittens · 14/04/2018 09:43

I actually saw "because people are nicer to women" listed as one of someone's reasons for wanting to transition once. Oh you sweet (bloody stupid) summer child...

YetAnotherSpartacus · 14/04/2018 10:04

My experience of the 'T' word is that in some circles, possibly now only in the past, it was used as a term of affection for and by some cross-dressers and drag queens in the kinds of circles and clubs that these people frequented and then usually only by 'insiders'. This was (OMG I'm getting old) over 20 years ago before the modern era and the new ways of being trans. I don't think it was ever appropriate to use the word to describe transsexuals who wanted to 'blend in' in wider publics.

The word is and has been used on MN and although I think innocently (someone complaining about their 'T' feet) like some other words it's politically sensitive and should not be used. There was even a thread edited on the Litter Tray a while back because the word p*y was used to describe a cat having a temper tantrum. There are just some words best avoided because either they cause hurt to some or because they get in the way of reasoned debate.

invisibleoldwoman · 14/04/2018 21:59

@LangCleg

brilliant ⭐️

yetanothertranswoman · 14/04/2018 22:37

I do find it infuriating when TS or TIM people speak about the slurs people call them as though it's something that women wouldn't know anything about. It always makes me want to say

Aren't transsexual people allowed to speak about the slurs that they get called without people saying "well, we get called slurs as well?"

I never said anything about women. I did talk about the fact that it is something that I have seen on here - although some people claimed not to have seen it.

Oh - and this happened whilst I was having my head kicked in

But I am glad you find it 'brilliant' that some people find it infuraiting when transexuals talk about the slurs they face and it's 'welcome to gender'

yetanothertranswoman · 14/04/2018 22:38

We did try to tell you but you didn't listen

What's that even supposed to mean?

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 14/04/2018 22:51

I don't see why we can't acknowledge that we are all subject to violence and disrespect as a result of not being masculine.

Let us remember who is the aggressor: it's none of us. to all of us who have been on the receiving end of male violence.

thebewilderness · 14/04/2018 23:16

although some people claimed not to have seen it.
Do you have any idea how obvious this is?

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