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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

TRA infiltration

120 replies

Terfragette69 · 12/04/2018 21:41

How much do you suspect the tra's have infiltrated Mumsnet? I am in a group on Facebook and we have been discussing this and are very worried that we may lose this forum, it would appear Mumsnet sponsors are being targeted and money counts. What can we do? I have seen a tightening up of trans talk, which I'm not saying isn't a good thing as tra's seem to be adopting a cleaner approach, Lily Madigan is, by saying her followers shouldn't use Terf etc. To be perfectly honest I have not seem any transphobia on Mumsnet, but still we are being targeted....... What to do to ensure we can carry on discussing this issue??

OP posts:
CircleSquareCircleSquare · 12/04/2018 23:13

Yep I think I’m out too, at l least for now.
They’ve won, I’m done.

Good luck.

DarthArts · 12/04/2018 23:32

Everyone needs to take a step back imho.

Nobody has won or lost as stands. That's part of the issue - it should be a debate not a war.

SM is a minefield and its easy to think that "everyone" thinks a certain way.

Everyone I've spoken to in RL "gets" this.

We need to do more about talking to our friends, neighbours, family etc.

We should not give up.

OvaHere · 12/04/2018 23:32

I don't think anyone has 'won'. Political progress and comprise is rarely linear.

I personally don't want to 'win' at the expense of trans people, I accept they will always exist and have a particular set of needs but I do want women and girls needs taken into account as to how we manage certain circumstances that arise in society due to biological difference.

I won't accept that biological sex is irrelevant or non existent, that is a line in the sand for me (and I expect the vast majority of people if they were aware of the debates).

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 12/04/2018 23:35

I don’t mean they have won a battle about trans rights - I want trans people to have rights. I posted a page back where I stand.

I mean they have won in intimidating and silencing. I have issues off board re this too which I can’t discuss here as it will out me further.

Pratchet · 12/04/2018 23:36

I think TRA come here and post nasty stuff in order to shame MN

Pratchet · 12/04/2018 23:38

Circle's idea is a good one though I prefer 'we do not accept your bigotry here'

UpstartCrow · 12/04/2018 23:39

Can that be reworded? Its too easy to parody (I watch a lot of comedy).

anneoneill · 12/04/2018 23:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Trumpdump · 12/04/2018 23:58

There's been a lot of reasonable feminist threads deleted recently... Sad

Is there somewhere else we can go if discussion here gets closed down?

Flomper · 13/04/2018 00:02

Setup a new reddit sub. Easy. Or get really clever and use closed chat. There's no way they can shutdown discussion. The cat's out of the bag. Would be a shame to lose MN, but in no ways an issue if it happens.

thebewilderness · 13/04/2018 00:24

Hello annie. We did not invent boycott. The man it is name after did.

anneoneill · 13/04/2018 00:29

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thebewilderness · 13/04/2018 00:33

This reply has been deleted

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anneoneill · 13/04/2018 00:35

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Ereshkigal · 13/04/2018 00:39

#TGLWGH

Wombman · 13/04/2018 00:50

This is all very distressing I just saw screenshots of mn conversations we've been having tonight about them saying vicious things.

Truscum · 13/04/2018 00:52

What lies about trans people have you seen anne?

TripleRainbow · 13/04/2018 01:05

*'Anne'
*
This person appears to be yet another troll, and from what I see that person is deleted/banned.

Good riddance.

WTGLWGH Thanks

Pratchet · 13/04/2018 01:39

There's a desperation about the tactics, a feeling that they are on the edge of a full public debate, the Tories not pushing GRA and Labour not winning an election to do it for them, women gathering in their thousands, lesbians and gay men accusing them of homophobia, more men joining the gender criticals, the BBC becoming slightly more balanced, and more and more papers publishing sensible opinion pieces. A carefully organised campaign over ten years is now firefighting and on the back foot. If we think it's been bad till now, we haven't seen the half of it.

poshme · 13/04/2018 02:26

Some of those MN messages that they are complaining about are green.
On my phone, messages on MN are only green if they are MY messages...

Is that the case for everyone?

Ie- are they posting pics of their own messages & then trying to say they are transphobic?

OvaHere · 13/04/2018 02:38

Green is the colour of the OP. I see mine as purple.

poshme · 13/04/2018 03:18

Ah ok.

Ecriture · 13/04/2018 06:17

@poshme
My posts come up as red and the OPs green but you're on the right track.

It means that they are definitely users with logins. So this tweeter is either a previous MN user or has joined the site with the intention of dragging up dirt.

As one user said, some of the posts go back to 2010. I can only assume that the tweeter did an advanced search for the 't' word and this is what they found.

I'm not going to debate or defend those posts because I have not seen the context of the entire thread and I think the debate or conversation has substantially moved since 2010.

I also understand that while transvestitism still exists in some forms and some people don't object to being referred to using that term, many people do and it's usage is becoming outdated.

Therefore, they not want to associate or identify themselves with that word (or the 't' moniker) as it does not reflect their experience or their categorisation of themselves. For the purposes of civil debate, point accepted.

However, I think this is an awful shame that someone has done this and gone this far to prove this point and attempted to shame this site to an external audience.

This site about more that feminist chat. There are many many users of all genders who draw help from this site-anything from budgeting in a crisis to leaving abusive relationships.

Behaving in such an inflammatory and deceitful fashion is debasing the large section of the trans community who want to live their lives undisturbed.

It also serves to silences the ones that may want to add their experiences to the debate.

Unfortunately, like many other marginalised communities, the actions of one member can be seen as the actions of the many. This makes non-trans people less likely to listen and aborb the views of the diverse community which also exists outside of Twitter and has existed for hundreds of years before this modern bubble.

My point is ultimately, this behaviour does a great disservice to many.

The tactics that have been used in the push to shut down debate are very deceitful. This includes using edited information as propaganda, misrepresentation of the facts, going as far as tweeting supermarkets and info bombing. All very 1984. Most people don't have the time to and won't read everything and deconstruct it.

So it just looks like those nasty women are being mean again. What a disservice they do this site.

Should supermarkets become political and divided along ideological lines? Only liberals can shop in co-op? Christian conservatives in sainsburys?

Of course not, very worrying and ridiculous.

I understand fighting for your own personal rights but people like tweeter this don't seem to understand the ripple effect of their actions which has far reaching consequences outside of this debate.

I would urge others to read the tweets. It's up to others but I wouldn't respond as it would only fuel the flames.

I have tried to remain moderate and as intellectual as possible but I am deeply frustrated at this term of events.

Thank you MN for giving us a platform and a space for this long. It is much appreciated.

0phelia · 13/04/2018 08:34

Melamin
Ah thanks I can see the tweets after logging out.

So it looks like a collection of posts containing the word t**y.

These posts must be from aibu or chat because that word is rarely used in FWR chat.... but it is used in the real world and used particularly by men in the real world....

They should try searching Reddit fgs they'd come out far worse.

Gender critical feminists have tried to do the same thing to TRAs as in screenshot the abuse and slurs they use against women. An account called "exposing trans activists" did just this but got mysteriously closed down... but we can and will still call them out for their abuse against women which frankly is far worse.

Everytime they say "die terf scum" or whatever people see this.

They will intimidate and slur and threaten it's what they do, but as we grow stronger they have to use harder tactics and this is what we are seeing now. And the HOC sees them too now.

We can see them and it's far from a "win" on their part. (Not that I see it as a win/lose thing myself).

0phelia · 13/04/2018 08:42

Those comments are definitely not from Feminist Chat, one is talking about changing bank accounts and then looking at t**y porn Confused
Not that it matters terribly.

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