Dealing with inflammatory posts re Trans on MN

[womanformallyknownaswoman]

I am concerned to see the message below from MNHQ at the end of the T thread. Regarding posts that I consider "goady", I have a personal policy of not feeding them, not engaging and not rising to the bait. I ignore them. OPs looking for conflict as a way to feed themselves won't get it from me. Firstly, it's exhausting-they are not interested in dialogue, despite what they say, and secondly the best way to deal with them, imo, is to starve them of attention and not rise to the bait. Don't give them what they want i.e. a fight and conflict.

My concern is I predict there will be a lot more new threads and OPs looking for a fight, as the public becomes more aware of the issues and the tide starts to turn against TRAs. They will want to try and get this Place closed down for discussion, and none of us want that to happen.

Personally I have found it empowering to learn how not to engage and to turn it back on them if absolutely necessary, by the use of ridicule and short rebuttals of their nonsense. I am happy to share some techniques if it will help plus learn more from others. There's no point in trying to score points and win all the arguments they make as it's the engagement down their rabbit holes they want - they literally feed off conflict. They're anti-social remember, so any attention is better than none. They want to keep you coming back and arguing, so they can derail, prolong, provoke and generally make life difficult for MNHQ - to force them to take action. The negative attention "turns on" those looking for a fight….so please don't feed them, ignore them and lets keep this place open.

Message for MN:

Hi all

Since this thread is getting near its end, this seems like a good moment to make a really serious point.

We've just made some more deletions on this thread, and we're pretty exasperated tbh - we feel we're running out of ways to say 'please stick within the TGs or risk losing MN as a place to discuss this issue.'

We're really proud of our commitment to free speech, and we put a huge amount of time and resources to enabling this debate to take place - as many of you have pointed out, it's one of the few places left.

To those who haven't yet been able to stop and look at things from our end of the barrel - please understand that you're risking this space for everyone; if you really can't debate civilly with those you disagree with, it might be time to consider that MN is no longer the place for you. We're sorry to have to say this - we don't like it one bit - but tbh nothing else seems to have got through so far: we're at a point of last resort.

Thanks to all those who modify their first instincts and manage to make their points in a calm, considered and civilised manner - even in the face of goadiness. We appreciate it (and so would Michelle.)

Thanks all

MNHQ

I'm another one chipping in to say that I appreciate that MNHQ is treading a difficult line, and I value the ability to speak clearly on these matters.

Happy to try to keep the tone of the debate high, though, and not get to name calling. I've only had one post deleted (about Caitlyn Jenner) and want to keep it that way (it was quite a rude post).

And I do think we need to stop posting about a certain high profile young labour activist. It's not a good look to make it so personal. I know why people are doing it, I get the frustration and anger, I really do, but I think we need to let discretion be the better part of valour there.

My DS is here, he's come to visit and brought what looks like two months of washing. I'm watching him washing.

We will probably deliveroo dinner, so lazy. I love it.

I'm so lazy I can't be bothered to hate anyone. I'm not too lazy to uphold a woman's place in society and the law, needs must. Life gets you that way.

I do however think we need to keep posting about individuals - whether Laurel Hubbard or a young labour guy - but appropriately - it is things like this that make people wake up - these it couldn't possibly happen....

Upstart, you can get felting machines that work a bit like sewing machines and look almost identical. They use barbed needles though - regular sewing machine needles wouldn't work in the same way.
I have one, but I'm not convinced it's much faster than needle felting by hand, and changing the barbed needles is a faff. And expensive.

It's truly amazing I have time to have considered opinions on the nature of gender, and on women's rights, what with all these other hobbies. I can also spin. And knit and weave and crochet.

Once there was an MN meet-up - maybe pre-MillionWomenRise, and DD and I made needle-felted badges for everyone who came, based on their MN name.

Needle felting is a v good hobby.

It's truly amazing I have time to have considered opinions on the nature of gender, and on women's rights, what with all these other hobbies. I can also spin. And knit and weave and crochet.

I know tis a shocker. Men do it to. They have hobbies and find the time to take up more than 70% of all leadership positions worldwide! A - maz - ing.

www.kcl.ac.uk/sspp/policy-institute/news/newsrecords/2018/Julia-Gillard-establishes-Global-Institute-for-Women's-Leadership-at-King's-College-London.aspx

Just a quick "yay" that mumsnet is still here. I know that people would still keep campaigning, there are petitions and sterling work of man Friday et al but we'd miss it if it was gone. I can't think of another organisation still allowing debate as high profile as this site. I would be very poorly informed if I didn't come here.

I was the culprit on the last thread. I mentioned a politically neutral teddy bear, and posted links to said bear's views. I find the bear funny but factual. The bear reverses the mantra in a manner which is quite powerful and uses common parlance. I do realise that despite this bear representing the view of the majority of men and women worldwide, irreverence is not reverence. I also realise this lack of reverence for a serious issue is potentially counterproductive. I know this is not a laughing matter.

Can I jump in with another point? yet another transwoman pointed out that people didn't call out transphobic comments, although they did get deleted.

It can be a deliberate choice not to rise to the bad comments of other users. It just draws attention to the problem and gives that person more opportunities to offend. Reporting without comment is much more effective- don't give the oxygen of attention.

And related to that, sometimes we argue with each other over really quite minor differences. If we can ignore the details we differ on, we'll do better at keeping threads on track and easy for lurkers to understand. When we get diverted in challenging each other, and explaining/defending ourselves, it wastes good discussion time, IMO.

I think it is important to remember that this is the Feminist chat and Feminists have always been accused of being man haters.
Calling MN transphobic is just the current version of misogyny that has been practiced since before the Suffragettes were immortalized on post cards as women who couldn't get a man.

So bad is the shutting down of dissent I have found myself on the team of a teddybear the deploys a carrot.

Can someone PM me the ted thing? I'm not sure what to look for.

I agree pickle; I tend not to type report, I just do it as it brings more attention to the reported post even if it is deleted.

Saying that something is too close to the bone (but not praps report worthy) and why is constructive I think.

Was it Ted 2

I havent seen Ted 2

It was Ted 2. Don't post links. See Youtube

Have you seen me attempt a link

It takes about 2 hours

Nope not gonna link to that!!

Just being nosy

Ted 2 the movie funny scenes. Ted's best friend is a stoner whose GF dumps him cos he's a layabout stoner. Ted is his BF.

I've come to realise this is an important allegorical movie. If that sounds pompous it's not intentional. The writers clearly knew what they were doing.

Is it just Ted 2 or is ted good too?

Ted free on Amazon prime. But will pay for Ted 2

Ted 1 is awesome too, spoiler alert for Ted 2.

I am not a fan of lad culture and in the beginning you think you are watching lad culture, I have two DS so watched both with them, and you know, it's totally human non conforming and so intelligent. Clever writing.

Those of you loving the Ted movies, whilst I have not seen them and now might check them out, Seth McFarlane the star and writer is also the star and writer of The Orville. A new TV show which is a version of Star Trek with humour.

But don't let that immediately put you off.

In episode 3 of the first series that was on some channel recently, forget which, Fox possibly, there is an episode he wrote called About a Girl.

He writes all the episodes of everything he does.

I think you might find this interesting as it is about two of the crew who are members of a single male sexed race who have a baby and it turns out to be a girl. Creating all kinds of confusion.

The story revolves around what happens next and it is an interesting allegory to transgender issues and Feminism in one go.

And also seems to make points about transgender children without actually saying this.

I am not mad on his cartoon series (Family Guy American Dad) as the humour is a bit crude. But The Orville is quite moderated and watchable.

jaycee

Yeah ive watched The Orville

It was a very interesting episode i found it a bit sad at times

It was sad. Yes. He is a talented guy. His singing in the proms at the Albert Hall is pretty good too.

Really?

Will have a little look

I had no idea who he was until he put on the most incredibly misogynist performance at the Academy Awards a few years ago.

I kept getting him confused with the other seth