Ulster Rugby trial -continued

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New thread.

Totallymyownperson I agree, but does going after two men after they’ve been rejected by our society really further the cause in the best possible way.
If it does and it can be explained what the end goal will be, I’m in. But I need to understand it.

Treacle what you are saying is that Protestant groups have shown themselves to be more misogynistic than catholic? And you have gleaned this information from Facebook profiles? I understand your good intentions but please just stop. A distinction does not have to be drawn between the two communities...despite being embarrassingly inaccurate, what good does it do? So typical of the NI bubble to always being everything back to religion...I despair!!

NotTaken, I agree that protesting against them joining any club might do more harm than good.

I am not surprised to see the pay-off headline. There was no way they would have accepted the decision otherwise, given the outcome of the court case

sashh
A particular Irish look.
Does Paddy Jackson look anything like Stuart Olding, Blane mc Ilroy or Rory Harrison ?
No .
All Northern Irish but they don't look alike.

Interestingly, this article says that Exeter are negotiating with Olding but distanced themselves from a deal with Jackson. I wonder why one and not the other?

I was talking about the abuse on social media.

I can't see that anyone has said that Bumble and I am very sure not a single poster in this discussion thinks that, most certainly not Treacle. What happened to your daughter is not ok.

I can't get on board with wanting to see SO and PJs lives in ruins. I can understand why some would. I have seen some boys/men who displayed similar disregard for women grow up to live useful lives with wives and children. I cannot know what is in their heads but it feels like they have changed. I believe people can change. Perhaps it feels inadequate but given that inadequate is exactly what our justice system is, at least there are some consequences. I think the publicity and having to move will feel like consequences.

I think the biggest thing for me yesterday was if I/others had spoken up years ago perhaps people like this young woman and Bumble's daughter wouldn't have to go through the same experiences. I wonder what could have been achieved. I felt a huge guilt I've never felt before about responsibility to our daughters and all who come after us.

I think the way forward is to focus on the positive here.

Maybe think about what that review at Ulster rugby going to look like? Is there an opportunity to see how it's shaped. What women's groups will be engaged. Will it include schools? Etc.

I'm not local but clearly there are some strong women in Belfast. I hope they hold the rugby establishment accountable for what happens next.

Small steps but steps...

I don't have too much of a problem with them getting contracts elsewhere (and it was always going to happen). It's enough that their bubble of

Onlylivingboy and NotTaken
I guess it will all depend on how local women feel about them. Whether they want to see them in their club and area.
I just think they if their entire career was ruined it would send a message to other sportsman that misogyny will follow you around forever.
That you will not be able to simply pick up your life and career elsewhere after all most women are not usually able to do that

Shit pressed send too soon.

It's enough that their little bubble of being hotshots in their home province has been burst.

Another thing that's interesting and isn't being talked about is the fact that BOI has a newly appointed female CEO. Not only that, but she's set an overtly feminist agenda for the company.

I'm sure they would have put pressure on Ulster Rugby anyway to drop them, but it's good to think that powerful women in business are in a position to get push female perspectives more strongly.

I'm sorry Bumble. Really, I am. I have asked for my earlier post to be deleted. I don't want to cause you and your family more hurt.

I wonder if any of their other sponsors have females in senior roles? They might be the most susceptible to a bit of pressure.

No more petitions.
They have been appropriately punished for their unpleasant remarks.
They are not guilty of any other charge...I personally don't want this to turn into a witch hunt.

At this point, I feel it has to be acknowledged that these are both young men (under 25 at the time of the events).
Purely from a neurological viewpoint, their brains- particularly the parts associated with making judgements- does not mature until age 25.
They have made mistakes- they need to go away, think about their actions.

This is an opportunity for them both to learn skills (personality and maturity skills) that they might not otherwise have the opportunity to develop. Post-Traumatic growth and all that.
Living in an elite sports bubble, they may have been coached in ball skills and mindset to overcome a game defeat...but not so much about empathy and compassion.

Overcoming game defeats makes a good sportsman.
Developing compassion make a good human.

It's up to them what they use this opportunity.

What?
How they use this opportunity

I don't agree...I think that this should follow them. If this happened to someone in the teaching profession they would be struck off and unable to get a job in teaching again...I think the same should hold true here.

And the girl they were 'not guilty' of raping was only 19...think of the damage done there...if anything at 25 they should have been older and wiser...how is she moving on? How is she being judged when going for job interviews? How has her mental health been affected? And she was the victim...

I think they should be blackballed from the sport for life and should never have received a pay off...

If men's brains aren't mature enough to make decisions under the age of 25 why do we allow all those 23 and 24 year olds straight out of university make life and death decisions in hospitals up and down the land?

Or fly small aircraft. Or teach children. Or drive a car. Or join the army/navy/RAF.

If young men are so incapable of taking responsibility for their behaviour, maybe the entire set up of society needs reconsidered.

You can choose to misunderstand what I'm saying.

That part of the brain which is most adept at making refined judgements does not fully mature until 25 or so.
That does not mean that people under 25 are incapable of making decisions or taking the time to consider competing moral viewpoints.
The fact is that this part of the brain is not fully mature until then.

These young men are still completely responsible for their actions and their words.
However, hounding them around Europe (or South Africa, or New Zealand or wherever) does not restitute the young lady in question.
Allowing them time to mature, consider what they have done, and prove that they are worthy of respect in spite of what they wrote is the more considered and mature response.

Bumble
I agree, but I am trying to work on the facts which the court decided on.

There are two issues here IMO.
One is this case, with the facts that emerged both in court, and after the case concluded.

I am only speaking about the appropriate outcome for SO and PJ.

Separately, I agree that the case is symptomatic of a misogynistic, powerful, elite attitude- of which your DD is at the receiving end.
I get it- I have two DD's coming to the age of going to the local RFC for nights out.
I was the young girl, hearing those remarks. And knowing that there is no going up against the local RFC or GAA club boys.

I am really sorry that this is happening to your DD and I abhor it. I'm truly sorry if what I said appears to condone that behaviour, because, I absolutely do not.
My DS has had multiple talks about this case so that he knows that these attitudes are unacceptable.

But, I stand by my opinion that losing their jobs is sufficient- and I would hate to see the campaign spread to France or elsewhere.