Thoughts on #suemepaddy ?

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Another very disturbing development post trial ...

"Ulster and Ireland rugby player Paddy Jackson has said he intends to sue Labour Senator Aodhán Ó Riordáin for defamation after the politician sent a tweet in the wake of the Belfast rape trial verdicts."

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/paddy-jackson-s-lawyers-say-he-intends-to-sue-aodh%C3%A1n-%C3%B3-riord%C3%A1in-over-tweet-1.3445578

You'll easily find a copy of the original tweet that caused offense.... can't believe he'd do that. I'm thinking I should sign up for twitter and post with#suemepaddy

He's only suing O'Riordain for now. Threats of monitoring twitter etc though and thousands of people have said what he did and worse, so watch this space!

Thanks for posting the tweet zibbidoo.

Surely a bystander is entitled to believe something / anything.. i hope A o'r doesnt back down either.

The kitchen sink comment. Omg. He is just such an arsehole.

"Does anyone else wonder if Paddy's lawyer is just looking for more work following the end of the rape trial? Because I can't see any other reason why he'd recommend suing for that tweet."

Hmm. I don't know. Maybe he really doesn't like Paddy.

Lol just caught up with this. Yes 'dote' here is very affectionate and was meant as such. Frankly it couldn't figure out where I had seen it before and it could well prove significant for anyone getting hassle from Paddy Jackson AND Stuart Oldings solicitors. (He has now issued a similar threat).

Hi all,

This is just to remind everyone that they are individually responsible for what they post and to keep Talk Guidelines in mind. Please also avoid speculation.

Thanks

Yes, could you PLEASE all avoid speculating on the exact meaning of “dote”. Even if you believe you know what it means, you are not entitled to hold that belief if it has been established not to mean that in a court of law.

#suemepaddy

SO has issued a threat to sue now has he?

Tbf he and his legal team appear to think he's going to sue pretty much everyone.

On the subject of the statement by the legal firm representing PJ, surely what they have stated they are doing/planning on doing is criminal? They have stated they will monitor WhatsApp conversations, Google searches, Facebook, etc., how are they planning on doing this to private individuals? Are they going to hack peoples accounts? Are they in possession of software/technology to do this and if they are are they legally entitled to?

Surely this should be taken up with whoever/whatever body oversees legal practices within NI as here is a firm indicating they are acting illegally.

Not necessarily, Cassandra.

As far as I know from previous instances of libel cases in connection with mumsnet posts (she who cannot be named, a certain Evangelical Christian charity who allegedly use charitable giving as an opening to proselytise, various pyramid selling schemes), what typically happens is the complainant demands MN either takes the post down or supplies the RL identity of the person who posted. MN then offers the individual poster the choice - "Do you want to retract your post, or are you happy for us to pass on your real-world contact details to the complainant?"

AFAIK this is due to a grey area in law as to whether sites like MN count as merely telecomms carriers (and hence aren't responsible for the content of the messages) or act as publishers (hence are responsible). MN understandably won't take the risk, so their terms and conditions are "either you let us take the post down, or you consent to us passing your details on."

No hacking necessary.

But hairy MN is a publicly viewable site. Whatsapp messages between a group or two people aren’t. You can’t just log on to WhatsApp and view what people have sent to each other. Same with google searches. You can’t log on anywhere and see what I have searched in the last week.

He's badly advised if his lawyers are telling him "I believe her" is libellous. It would be perfectly possible to believe that she is telling the truth in terms of her perceptions of what happened, without necessarily saying that the verdict is wrong.

I don't know about Northern Ireland libel law, but back in the dark ages when I did defamation I was told that to establish a claim you had to show that whatever had been said about you would lower you in the eyes of right-thinking men and women. Therefore if your reputation is at rock bottom anyway you probably can't get a claim off the ground, or at best you'll win an absolutely minimal amount.

The other problem about bringing a claim is that the defendant has to prove the truth of what he said on a balance of probabilities, not beyond reasonable doubt. It is therefore entirely possible for a libel court to find that someone did commit a crime even though that person has been acquitted in the criminal court.

These are very, very dangerous waters for Jackson.

I wish our libel laws were more like the US. If we had a Weinstein like story it could never be reported in the UK. Its what allowed jimmy saville to get away with it.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-42070575

Yes Bumble that's what I meant, the statement clearly implies that they are going to be monitoring private individuals personal WhatsApp, Facebook and Google searches in order to find instances of people saying "I believe her" or debating/talking about the case and forming an opinion on it which PJ does not agree with, this cannot be legal surely?

PJ has his Twitter account locked down, it cannot be randomly viewed he could be saying anything amongst his followers on there, he could be identifying the victim to them, etc., only he and his followers can know that yet his legal team seem to be saying they can and will find out what others are saying between themselves on private individual social media networks? PJ's privacy cannot be breached but others can?

Libel law is tricky and is out of step with the current methods of internet communication.

I don't think the threat implied that the lawyers would look through people's WhatsApp tbh.

It's just basically saying that everyone on social media should STFU or they'll sue.

It doesn't mean private conversations in private groups, that's not the point of it. The point is to try and stop what has happened: an upsurge of support for the woman who left Paddy's house bleeding and crying.

As far as I can tell, Paddy Jackson's lawyers haven't tweeted anything since four days ago (after tweeting almost daily prior to that). I wonder what that means. Maybe they're just busy trying to monitor the internet?

They really haven't thought it out, they have turned it with those threats from being a local issue to a global issue, further threats or action will most certainly cement that. It's not that people don't accept the verdict, it's that people are appalled at the severe level of mysoginy and the system that allowed rape or sexual abuse trials to be nothing more than sick media that drives up readership/viewing figures. Anyway the first rule of helping all survivors is that we tell them 'we believe you'.Mumsnet's We Believe you/ rape campaign in 2012 recognised this. Truth be known, many lawyers think the threats by PJ's solicitors are the worst PR move ever - in fact I was told they are being laughed at by half of the bar library in the Dublin courts. Frankly I don't think it's funny at all. I think it's sad they didn't read the hurt and tone of the country. I think PJ's smug demeanour was self defeating.There was no remorse from PJ for the severe mysoginy that left a girl just a year from childhood - decimated, feeling utterly unbearably violated. Olding on the other hand, won praise for striking a more appropriate tone.What will the Law Societies role in this? Well I hope there are many discussions going on both in its rooms/bar and the Bar Library and just for second they all drop the condescension for mere plebs and recognise the system they are in charge of/administer has lost the trust of many of the public,so they have failed us - these shortcomings need fixed.Times up for mysoginy, it's as disgusting as racism - we just have to wait for it to get the same legal status. PJ's lawyers have the opportunity to actually be what they purport to be, interested in human rights. Is this just for their wealthy clients or are they actually interested in our most vulnerable? Hopefully too Ulster Rugby and the IRFU will have recruited a crisis team by now. Something that takes the heat out of this crisis and proves to the public and sponsors alike mysoginy will no longer be tolerated. You never know, PJ may even decide his long term future may be better if he drops the legal/aggression and takes the PR/crisis route.One thing for sure though, threaten an (norn)irish woman and you will regret it. We have grown up in an actual war zone, put that together with love for our daughters and we will win equality and respect.

Interesting you say that a lot of the Irish legal community think the strategy of issuing a statement that #ibelieveher was inappropriate. I'm not in any position to know one way or the other.

It certainly fanned the flames for Paddy imho.

I've also noted a recent lack of communication on SM from his legal team.

As per pp's I wonder how much was advised and how much was client driven. Not that it's likely to be confirmed either way.

Gut feel is that after all the #suemepaddy there's a new strategy being planned.

My money is on "go quiet" for a few weeks/months (with lots of networking/lobbying behind the scenes) and then come back with a full on #propaddy media campaign with him portrayed as a victim of social media and legislation naming men who end up being acquitted of rape.

Whatever...leaving a young woman with vaginal lacerations, crying, and crowing about it with your mates; it is going to be a damn hard sell to come out of this as a "victim" never mind nothing less than a misogynistic, callous, cockwombling, pile of flaming horse shite, that I personally wouldn't piss on to put out the flames.

But that's obviously just a personal opinion.

The positive PR I would expect to see is big donations to sexual abuse charities, programmes of education re consent being paid for by big sport institutions and rolled out to schools. Committees being formed to discuss mysoginy and how to challenge it. Taxi drivers being instructed what to do when clients they feel have been attacked have been present in their car. PJ himself should have lay low then took up a job overseas, the legal aggression risks shutting down that route. Reports in the Sydney papers and possible I believe her marches there risk this. The heat needs to go or he is toast sponsor wise.

Sorry I appear to have lost the ability to use paragraphs. (Using twitter too much).

It seems Paddy has changed the tune??
Paddy Jackson says he is 'sorry' and 'ashamed' www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43670607