Ulster Rugby Rape Trial - Not guilty to all charges

[Quimby]

Verdict just returned
Not guilty to all four accused, all unanimous decisions.

you don't seem particularly upset that this is the "man pack" box unless your posts are suggesting weary disillusionment rather than slight couldn't give a fuck?

box is right. Mum whatsapped me about the result then I got 2 more messages about ewes lambing. My boss (who went to one of the rah rah rugby schools and is a keen STFTUM type) was only interested in speculating whether they would play for Ulster again and the wording in their contracts, and whether Ulster Rugby would get sued if they were kicked to the kerb. Then back to work matters.
My husband nodded along with me when I came home. He was enthusiastic about the fantasy retribution we could exact if our own young daughter is ever injured in such a fashion, but quickly changed the subject when I expressed despair and sympathy for those who cannot exact retribution.
Nobody I know really gives a shit.
But I do.

Well mystery woman- much younger than me- who suffered vaginal bruising consistent with blunt force trauma, a laceration, a pool of blood- who was left in a right state according to the taxi driver and Harrison himself- apart from this testimony from third parties..
...I believe YOU. I believe what YOU said. I believe you did not consent to this. Thank you for trying, for standing alone, even though it ended as you predicted it would.

Someone asked what good a rally will do.
It will show this young woman that many many women stand by her and totally condemn her attackers and it is standing up for what is right .

People say that these things are forgotten quickly because the media stops talking about it but that does not mean people stop talking about it and forget it.
Or perhaps box is projecting their own dismissiveness and forgetfulness on others.

I believe her. I am so sickened for her, her family and friends that it has ended in this.

*SUFTUM obviously. Wonder if I could come up with a new acronym.
Did Rory Best ever act as character witness does anyone know? I followed most of the trial and think he had the good sense to be off winning the 6N rather than standing up telling the court what lovely, upstanding, wholesome, honest "legends" that lot were, but I didn't read all of the coverage. Did anyone do character witness and what did they say?

“
Yes, there is clearly little appetite where it is needed to change how rape trials are handled, but a simple change of wording from "not guilty" to "not proven" would go a very, very long way to tackling all those nasty "women are liars" allegations each time the evidence doesn't quite make it beyond reasonable doubt.”

But then what about cases when the jury return not guilty verdicts, people will take that as “extra proof” that the IP was lying

Ched Evans hasn't been forgotten, nor lots of others.

This business about the men hang raising a glass to their mates is vile. And accurate, I'm sure.

And conversely those who still believe the IP will say “not guilty doesn’t mean innocent” so what does it really add bit more confusion and insinuation from both sides

Gang not hang.

The thing about character witnesses really pissed me off. The defence barristers kept saying that it wasn't a court of morals or celebrity or personality. And then they were producing people to say what lovely young men they are. So which is it? Is it about their character or is it not?

Oh I am getting a lot of negatories now. Not that I mind, a reaction is a good thing.

Imagine how the girl at the centre of this feels now. It is over for her unless she takes a civil action.

Some people can be so judgmental of everyone. And on it goes. We are sisters or so I thought, but anything out side of the received wisdom is just rubbished.

Knee jerk reactions will not help us in our cause.

Dukes

Speaking as a man I don't think the 'man gang' are going to be 'raising a glass' any time soon.

The whole thing is pretty depressing, no matter which way you look at it.

Men don't celebrate rape or rape accusations, regardless of what you may think.

I believe her.

I believe her 💐

So let us say we reconvene in one month here and see what happens?

Nothing I would say. It will all be forgotten and on we go. The judicially innocent men will find a way too. I hope the woman will also, but I reckon she is not part of Rugby Ireland either.

This is the reason rape happens. Men are shown quite clearly that there are usually no consequences. Legal or otherwise.
The men who rape, do so primarily because they can.

I'm a criminal lawyer in Scotland and we have the 3 verdicts, guilty, not guilty and not proven. There are many who want to remove not proven as an option. It's not seen as a particularly helpful verdict, more of a 'fallback' if a jury just can't decide or think the accused probably did it but just can't make the evidence add up. It has the same effect as a not guilty verdict though.

I did not sit through the trial. I have to believe these people are innocent of the crime they are charged with. They may well have acted in a way that leaves them open to other court cases that are on balance of probabilities.

The reason I say I have to believe it is what happens if we just go on instinct/what is in the media. if I get caught up in something and wrongly charged but acquitted by jury I would really want "innocent until proven guilty" to mean something to the rest of the world. This is a really hard and public case, but innocence matters, maybe a lot more to average people who need to get jobs and live with other people in a community.

Again anyone could have done dreadful things that don't pass the hard test of beyond reasonable doubt and could be in civil court. I also believe that the crime of rape and potential changes should be looked at.

Except rape hasn't happened here Elen. Unless you have proof?

Please can someone point me to where the rally details are?

I think the not proven verdict is a great idea. Not guilty is so misleading.

Does anyone think there is any merit in emailing Ulster rugby to reinforce to them our disgust if they were taken back in the team?

I'm somewhat heartened by the outcry over the verdict & really hope there is momentum here for at least some small change in this out of date system

hashtags are ridiculous imv.

Jump on the bandwagon and feel great but do nothing. Sorry if that offends, but it is so easy to do without much information.

Join the herd.

@anneoneill rape happens whether there is proof or not

Anne - even aside from passing judgement on the outcome of the trial. I think Elen's point could also be read purely from the point of view of the way in which the system is loaded against "potential" victims - we've really not come a long way (as a society) from depressing "she was drunk" "she had a mini skirt on" "she was giving me mixed signals" have we? In that environment you can well imagine a sense of entitlement in some men (not all) being emboldened.

Rape only seems to happen if there is injury. Would that be correct or not.