Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Schoolgirls having to wear shorts under their skirts

112 replies

AreYouTerfEnough · 28/03/2018 03:39

Schoolgirls wear shorts to stop ‘upskirts’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e3c3da6-3203-11e8-9cf6-8fd69d6da6df

OP posts:
Gileswithachainsaw · 28/03/2018 17:13

Completely agree clara

Most opinions of non unifirm are based on mufti days where kids have one day every few months to show off their clothes.

When I went to college no one cared they just wore jeans and t shirts/vest tops/hoodys

LouiseCollins28 · 28/03/2018 17:29

Sorry, I disagree Clara. I don't see how uniforms "force everyone to think about clothes all the time" What makes pupils think less about clothes than wearing the same style of uniform each day? I can't see how wearing ones own clothes results in less thought required or less pressure being put on children?

Nor do I see how "UK uniforms are sexist" TBH. Uniforms vary widely from school to school, for it to be sexist it would have to be "less favourable" to one sex than the other, and I'm not seeing how that is the case with school uniform?
Louise

Gileswithachainsaw · 28/03/2018 17:41

Course it's treating them unfavourably.

Trying to squeeze particularly female bodies at various stages of puberty one a few select clothing items then constantly deciding they are too short, too tight, or forcing girls to keep blazers on in blistering heat because you can see their bra through their shirt is pretty unfavourable tbh.

pieceofpurplesky · 28/03/2018 18:48

@LouiseCollins28 yes secondary. Very mixed intake and over 1,000 pupils.

The girls prefer to wear skirts. The son my son attends is similar and most girls wear skirts then.

claraschu · 28/03/2018 19:23

LouiseCollins The uniforms force very young kids to dress in a gendered way. In general girls choose skirts for the first few years in primary school, because that is the prevailing fashion for girls, and you have to choose between 2 or 3 possible outfits. If you look at kindergarten kids in Europe and much of the USA, there is far less conformity- boys and girls in t-shirts and soft trousers of all colours and cuts.

The reason that uniforms force people to think about clothes is that the school is always telling kids how to dress, making rules and judgements. When schools simply stop mentioning clothes altogether, they become less of a way to rebel or to assert yourself, and can just be a natural part of a growing person's identity.

My children and their friends, in a big city in the South of England, wear far more makeup, far less practical clothing (like warm coats and shoes) and have much worse judgement and less confidence about their appearance, than my niece and nephew and their friends in NYC, or all of our friends in Germany and the Netherlands. The foreign schools do not ever comment on students' appearance, and as a result, it is less of an issue.

I know that the theory of uniforms is that everyone just wears the same thing so no one can tell your income, and thinking about appearances doesn't interfere with learning. The reality I have observed (3 kids of 22, 19, and 16) is that uniform policy backfires and creates a culture which is overly obsessed with appearance and lacking in common sense.

pieceofpurplesky · 28/03/2018 20:10

@claraschu that is the opposite of my experience. Teaching 20 years.

claraschu · 28/03/2018 20:15

Have you taught in a non uniformed school in a country that doesn't usually have uniforms?

claraschu · 28/03/2018 20:42

We probably both suffer from confirmation bias to some extent, purplesky, so neither one of us will be convinced by the other's second hand experiences.

However, when I decided to bring up my kids in the UK, I thought uniforms were a great idea, but the reality has been very different, especially for girls. My unscientific observation is that English girls are forced into a stereotype more than their US and European cousins, and that the uniforms are a part of that.

pieceofpurplesky · 28/03/2018 22:47

@claraschu yes and yes.

LouiseCollins28 · 29/03/2018 10:04

Thanks Clara for putting down your thoughts on this. Interesting to read your perspective and especially the thought that uniform policy backfires. I take your point about the rules, but of course without them (and even with them some of the time) uniform ceases to be well, uniform!

Also interested that you think that this leads to less practical/sensible choices. Are you thinking about the uniform itself there? or other (not school uniform) choices around dress and appearance that people make as a result of what you suggest are the "gendered" norms that uniform wearing perpetuates?

BlackeyedSusan · 29/03/2018 10:35

It is on Women's hour now.

AsAProfessionalFekko · 29/03/2018 10:38

I saw it in the times (yesterday or the day before)

New posts on this thread. Refresh page
Swipe left for the next trending thread