Schoolgirls having to wear shorts under their skirts

[AreYouTerfEnough]

Schoolgirls wear shorts to stop ‘upskirts’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e3c3da6-3203-11e8-9cf6-8fd69d6da6df

Trousers are only the “ male option” if you view clothes as gendered

Of course they are a male default. You don't like skirts and dresses fine. Others do - stop inventing spurious reasons why trousers are so much better. And stop ignoring those women and girls who don't find trousers comfortable.

Do we still consider trousers a 'default male' option? In 2018? Deafult 'practical' perhaps, thats why women and girls adopted them and now own them as much as anyone else.

Skirts should not be banned though unless there is an objective reason, which there are none in a school I can think of.

Agree with the poster who said children are being brainwashed into “boys look smart in trousers, but girls need to be wearing a dress/skirt to look smart”

It is pervasive, and carries on throughout life (unsurprisingly,given how strongly it is pushed when we are little).

I recently helped out at a school event. I was thanked officially at the event, and had to go up to receive flowers. When chatting about this beforehand, I lost count of the number of times I heard the equivalent of ‘well, we’llfinally see you in a dress then/best get your good frock out’

Umm, no. I prefer not to wear skirts/dresses. Everyone thought I was joking when I said I wouldn’t be wearing a skirt/dress, as obviously, looking smart = skirt (for girls/women) in their blinkered (and no doubt brainwashed from youth) outlook.

It’s utterly bizarre, and I don’t know how anyone thinks that girls are School are making their noises in a vacuum, oven the cultural and societal pressures and stereotypes surrounding them.

I was going to say about the bra strap pinging - the behaviour will change if girls are compelled to wear trousers but it won’t go away. It also then pushes the blame onto the girls because if they only got their clothing/behaviour right then these things wouldn’t happen to them. Which we all know is arse surely?

Grr, autocorrect.

Girls AT school, making CHOICES in a vacuum (as everyone knows, there’s no point making a noise in a vacuum 😀)

Which, for children at school, is trousers

Personally, I'd have 'em all in warm tracksuits in the winter and soft knee length cotton shorts and tee's (sp?) in the summer. Fuck fashion sense - this is about comfort and as little distraction as possible to learning. Tracksuits are comfy, easy to get on and off and practical. They are elastic waisted and can be 'cool' too if they can have enough personalisation (such as the year level or even the name stitched on). Hell, I'd even allow ones with hoods.

So i don’t think the unilateral wearing of skirts by schoolgirls is a free choice or preference. It is very much influenced by our new gender culture and social pressures

Oh of course women and girls are never allowed to be capable of making their own minds up - unless of course they wear trousers.

The difference in uniforms was insulting to me because the boys got to wear warm clothes whilst we shivered but looked feminine

The girls at my son's school wore heavy wool kilts, thick tights and boots in winter and a lighter summer uniform. The boys wore the same weight of trousers with socks regardless of the weather
.

This is covered time and time again on this forum - usually everyone hates it when the default option is the male option

Except in relation to clothes where there are certain posters who vehemently hate anything which they rubbish as feminine.

I don’t think banning skirts would stop the upskirt anyway, it would just evolve. It’s not about the actual picture it’s about the power of taking a photo that someone doesn’t consent to. They’d probably just take photos of front wedgies or down the back of the waist band when you bend over.
We can ban clothing left right and centre but until male entitlement is dealt with nothing will change.

Skirts should not be banned though unless there is an objective reason, which there are none in a school I can think of

There isn't.

Why isn't this thread in the general Chat Forum?

@noeffingifea have you ever actually worn a skirt?

‘Yes, the boy shouldn’t have upskirted you, but if you wore trousers like my dd, you wouldn’t have had that problem, would you?’

Well put.

RogerAllamsFangirl
Banning skirts seems to me to be a first step on the road to requiring girls to wear "modest" clothing

Another good point.

These are two separate issues, of course upskirt photos and any such behaviour should be banned and curbed.

Then the separate issue of trousers vs skirts, if you look at a non school setting, kids playing in the playground etc most of the older kids who would have chosen what they wear will be wearing trousers. If skirts were practical and comfortable surely more girls would opt to wear them outside of school as well?

The question that should be asked, every single time a school comes up with an absurd uniform policy like this, is "Why don't you have sufficiently robust anti-bullying policies to deal with the perpetrators? Why aren't you suspending them? Why aren't you having PHSE lessons covering the fact that voyeurism is a crime*, and that any sexual activity without consent (in fact, without enthusiastic and equal participation) is wrong? Why aren't you suspending the perpetrators?"

• I realise upskirting isn't specifically a crime at the moment, though hopefully the law will change on that one.

Of course they are a male default. You don't like skirts and dresses fine. Others do - stop inventing spurious reasons why trousers are so much better. And stop ignoring those women and girls who don't find trousers comfortable

Never said i don’t like skirts and dresses. I never said trousers are so much better.

If we are going to force young girls to wear shorts under skirts, what difference does it make that trousers become the default uniform. At least we will remove the implication that it is the girls fault that they get upskirted. If you find trousers uncomfortable, then shorts probably are too. Seeing as they’re just shorter versions.

Skirts/shorts, whatever. It still boils down to policing girls clothes.

If a school wanted to make its uniform skirts only, then that is fine with me. If they have good reason why skirts are the better choice for children, especially primary who may want to tun, play and cartwheel.

I wonder if there are men out there that find trousers uncomfortable, of if it is a female brain thing?

We always default to make. That's what gender neutral means!

I wonder if there are men out there that find trousers uncomfortable, of if it is a female brain thing?

A female brain thing? Did you mean to be so patronising to those posters who said they don't find trousers comfortable? It is just our silly female brain.

I don't find trousers comfortable. I've only ever had thrush and cystitis when wearing trousers.

Given that both women and men wore trousers initially (I believe that they were invented by nomadic horse-riding peoples) and that so many men in so many nations still wear skirts, I have trouble seeing 'gender' here beyond what is prescribed in the UK and other European (except for Scotland and some Orthodox nations) and similar colonial nations. In other words, skirts for women and tousers for men is a gender construct that is particular to particular geographical regions. I don't think it is denying women and girls anything essentially feminine or particular to womanhood to cease the wearing or skirts. This is not to say that there should not be other reasons for this not being a choice, but I don't think it can be seen as girls 'giving up' something about 'girlhood', because this is utterly constructed.

I'm with you Lass! always been keener to wear a skirt. I wear trousers very infrequently, and this has been the case since school days for me. Skirts can certainly be comfortable, IMO

Schools tend not to bother making changes unless they've had a shitty ofsted inspection which has flagged up serious concerns. This should be one of the things asked by Ofsted inspectors when they visit schools, if girls feel safe in class, if they've been subject to any sex based violence, if the school dealt with it appropriately.

I wonder if there are men out there that find trousers uncomfortable, of if it is a female brain thing?

I know a few men who only ever wear shorts, even in winter, unless they absolutely have to wear trousers, so I'd assume so.
They can be restrictive if they are of the tight fit design.

The school I teach in allows skirts or trousers for girls - the majority choose to wear skirts (with tights in winter).

I prefer it when the girls wear shorts underneath as it is difficult not to get an eyeful otherwise - a girl sits cross legged on the floor, comfortably on a chair, walking up stairs etc. The girls aren't asked to - they wear them because they want to. Conversations I have had said gym shorts and a skirt in summer is comfortable and cooler.

So SOME men/teens may take photos but the vast majority don't - if a girl wishes to wear a skirt ... she should.

@peicesofpurplesky
Interesting that a majority of girls choose a skirt when offered a choice. Is that a Secondary school you teach in?

If UK schools stopped policing clothes, or even mentioning clothes at all, after about 20 years girls' choice of clothes would become apparent. It would probably be similar to most other Western non-uniformed countries' clothes choice- nondescript jeans and t-shirts for most, with some kids who enjoy experimenting more in various unpredictable ways.

UK uniforms are sexist, and also force everyone to think about clothes all the time, even though they are supposed to prevent this.