Schoolgirls having to wear shorts under their skirts

[AreYouTerfEnough]

Schoolgirls wear shorts to stop ‘upskirts’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/3e3c3da6-3203-11e8-9cf6-8fd69d6da6df

I agree - I still have scars on my knees from when I fell over on the playground in 1976 and gouged my kneecaps

My son's school, like many private schools, has shorts as the boys' uniform for primary school.

DSs old school uniform was long shorts - so below the knees - and the girls had culottes. Far more practical.

I like culottes.
But that misses the point.
I hijkbrather than teach girls to moderate their behaviour, we should teach boys NOT to ‘upskirt’.
The culture of making girls responsible for boys behaviour is insidious.
‘Yes, the boy shouldn’t have upskirted you, but if you wore trousers like my dd, you wouldn’t have had that problem, would you?’

I did this.

Dr wears shorts too. No one's taken an upskirt photo but she doesn't want people to see her pants and of course kids do snigger when people do hand stands and pants are on show.

I used to do it as it was an extra layer when dealing with periods plus my old schools didn't allow trousers for girls

Anyone who thinks they can find a pair that fit, don't itch her And don't need to have the adjustable waists pulled yo which then cause immense irritation where it's bunched and the buttons rub they are welcome to come here and try before deciding skirts should be banned. And I have tried many suggestions when I started a thread

How about we tech kids and biys in particular to grow up we all wear pants there's no need to point and laugh. And we certainly should be teaching biys to be respectful and not take photos. Sooner that's a crime the better.

If we could get rid of uniform altogether id be happy.

The culture of making girls responsible for boys behaviour is insidious.
‘Yes, the boy shouldn’t have upskirted you, but if you wore trousers like my dd, you wouldn’t have had that problem, would you?’

This, this, this. FFS.

My school aged DDs have the option of trousers or skirts. Thus far they have chosen skirts and like them because “they are swishy”. They don’t seem to get in the way of anything they do and they like the privacy the skirt affords them when they get changed (in the classroom) for PE.

I bought them trousers for colder weather but the eldest asked to return to skirts and tights the next day because it felt warmer.

LassWiADelicateAir I’m interested for meaningful discussion and sharing opinion, but ‘what utter nonsense’ seems like quite a pointless comment.

in

I prefer wearing skirts and dresses to be honest, and always have done. I don't think girls (or boys) should be banned from wearing them.

Ereshkigal I have heard people say this before. I don’t like them but I’m interested to understand what makes them your preference?
What is the climate like where you are? I love a light summer dress when we go abroad.

Making boys and girls uniform the same and coming down hard on sexual harassment is not an either/or option. I would like sexual harassment to be treated with the same level of seriousness as racism, this is as much for the boys benefit as the girls as well, at the moment we a training our boys to treat women badly. Trousers are much more practical for active play, try riding a bike to school in a calf length skirt. It is also cheaper for parents as they can hand clothes down between their male and female children.

Their is a wider issue here as well, trousers are ridiculous for female police officers, fire fighters etc. Having female flight attendants tottering around in high heels, a pencil skirt and a face marked in make up while males wear trousers clean faces and practical footwear is sexist. These attitudes are so ingrained in our society we can't even see it. Male and female uniforms should be the same, I'm struggling to think of an example were it's sensible that they are different. Maybe another poster can?

Personally I never wear skirts or dresses an would much prefer trousers and shorts. I don't want to lapse into choice feminism but I don't see why girls should be forced to wear skirts because many do think they inhibit play and movement. And if boys really want to wear a skirt then all power to them.

Oh, and up skirting should be a crime no matter the age or motivation.

Banning skirts seems to me to be a first step on the road to requiring girls to wear "modest" clothing.

As a PP says boys today have unparalleled access to porn on the web and yet they still target their peers for non-consensual photos. To my mind this confirms the long standing feminist belief that this behaviour is not driven by sexual desire but instead by a desire to harass and humiliate.

I went to an all girls' school but if I heard of this at my child's school in the future I'd be raging and demanding the perpetrators be firmly punished so any other boys with smart ideas knows how seriously it is taken. Girls shouldn't have to limit their behaviour or dress to prevent boys misbehaving, let's put the blame firmly back where it belongs - on the boys taking photos and the culture that permits it.

Removing skirts as an option does seem to signal that boys/men can't be controlled and so it's up to girls/women to prevent them from being able to sexually harass them.

I wouldn't wear a skirt or dress unless forced to, but I'm aware that some (most?) girls/women prefer them. Uniform should always have a choice of trousers or skirt, and much more needs to be done to change the atmosphere in schools so that sexually harassing other students is seen as unacceptable by all.

I wear dresses 95% of the time. My DDs choose dresses or skirts for preference all the time. They find trousers very uncomfortable. Why should their preferences be taken away as choices? Those suggesting trousers only on this thread are presumably those who prefer to wear trousers. Not everybody does.

I'd love to be all glam and wear dresses but in reality I'm really messy and hard on clothes.

I am female and do prefer trousers so I’m struggling to picture feeling more comfortable in a skirt. I accept that it is personal preference.

Banning skirts seems to me to be a first step on the road to requiring girls to wear "modest" clothing

I wholeheartedly disagree. I hate a ‘slippery slope’ argument. It’s what held back civil liberties like marriage equality for years.

It's a major reason why many phones make a sound when a pic is taken even when the phone itself is on mute.

And they say that women don't need women only toilets...if someone is likely to do that in broad daylight what photography will they attempt in the toilets

One really obvious step in the right direction would be for schools to stop talking about what pupils wear: no uniforms, no guidelines, no rules about appearance. They could put all the time and energy they waste policing people's hairstyle choices, shoe logos, etc, into teaching kids not to be sexist and abusive.

I think that teachers lowering themselves to be concerned about skirt length/ makeup/ hair dye/ etc, sets an appalling example to students. Teachers should be concerned with helping kids to be kind and compassionate, and above all with inspiring kids to be excited about learning.

Countries without uniform, like the Netherlands and Germany, for example, have pupils with a more mature attitude to clothes, in my experience.

Culottes should really be an option.

I detest skirts and never wear them. We had to campaign to get dd’s primary school to allow trousers for girls. Much more practical in the playground.
As a feminist, I’d like to point out the phrase “Who wears the trousers” as an indication of who holds the power in a situation. Skirts are demeaning, a symbol of powerlessness, and allow easier access to a woman’s genitals for abuse, upskirting photos, whatever.

Skirts are not the problem.

The problem is that schools are not taking a zero tolerance approach to sexual harassment in schools. I would like to see discipline for the boys who are caught doing this and education on respect for everyone. Why are girls feeling that they have to wear shorts to protect themselves rather than feeling that they can report such behaviour to staff and will be listened to?

Kinda ironic how unifirm is supposed to hide the fact people have bodies underneath yet ridiculous restrictions mean the trousers most likely to fit and be practical are banned and the skirts are too short by the time they fit around the waist.

And of course there's the humiliation of see through shirts