We need a TRA support group

[0phelia]

I have delved into the dark underbelly of Twitter and so have had the "privilege" to come across some proper trans activists.

Some gems including someone who really believes women cannot tell the difference between men who say they're women and women. That it's "gaslighting" of me to suggest anyone can tell the difference.

And another tra lecturing me how transmen have the exact same physiological structure as men (because taking hormones) so he really cannot understand how transwomen should be excluded from women's sport. "Arm/leg lengths differ between people I have short legs = therefore all men should be included with women in sport" because artificial hormones.

Other gems... I have cis privilege because I think transwomen with penises should be seen as a type of Man... (let's just say I reject cis anyway and my years living as a prostitute is it really seen as a privilege?)

I'm not sure what sort of social media conversations you are all having but it is horrible being a GC feminist out there!

Do you mean we need a GC support group, to refresh after wallowing in trans ideology?

If so, welcome home.

I was quite surprised to see how often it was asserted on twitter in the #manfriday threads that of course no one could just say they were trans with no gatekeeping - well of course they can, that's the whole point of Self ID.

It's always difficult to pick out naivety from dis ingenuity but the more I read the more I'm starting to think that many really are shouting for things they don't have all the facts on, don't fully understand, and they're many of them in support of the well known TRA speakers for whom reality is a moving target. Goodness knows they've been well drilled in how anyone with questions or doubts gets treated, and many of them will be vulnerable.

When it all starts to seem irretrievably batshit I like to read this article in The Times by Debbie Hayton (science teacher and trans woman) until the red mist starts to lift:
People fundamentally believe lots of things but that does not necessarily make them true. We don’t legislate on the basis of astrology or homeopathy, for example, yet the government is considering reforms to the Gender Recognition Act that may allow people to self-identify their legal sex based on their fundamental beliefs ...To command respect, we need to ground our laws in scientific truth and in society. Science cannot be fooled.
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/we-transgender-women-cannot-self-identify-our-sex-wglh6srw3

kneedeep
That's water I can't work out, if they really really believe what they're saying because they're naive and "don't have all the facts" or they're just saying it because they don't care about facts and just want to believe in unreality.

The problem is once confronted with facts, they tell you you're wrong! Then start on the insults. It's not like when you say, I don't know, like the thing about sports "but men and women are physiologically different in many ways not just hormone levels" they suddenly go "oh I didn't realise, thanks" they always go "no they aren't, you disgusting human"

I just can't believe the absolute idiocy and deliberately ignorance of these people! It's scary.

I never really knew about TRAs until recently and did think they were just people lacking in education, but it's impossible to get through to them.

Dorothy thanks it's good to read sense

I agree about the need for a support group. Being out on Twitter can get very stressful. And it’s not just the TRAs for me. It’s wondering what the few real-life friends on there might think of me. And having to remove any and all details of where I am. I replied to a tweet from my husband yesterday in a way that indicated I lived with him, then realised he had the village where we live tagged on his profile.

I do think it is a fight worth having, but it isn’t enjoyable and I did suddenly during the weekend start feeling very alone and wanting contact with other people who were going through something similar.

But I’m also wary that TRAs might look here too, so too much openness is difficult.

I started a few #manfriday threads, got a couple of"TERF"s thrown at me but also two men seemed to be ready for a discussion and actually listened. It was ...surprising.

I never really knew about TRAs until recently and did think they were just people lacking in education, but it's impossible to get through to them.

You can’t get through to them. All you can do is be utterly rational, provide evidence and hope that other more rational people who see the tweets will question the dogma and peak.

Weirdly, although I get attacked by TRAs on twitter, my proper life friends have not responded with any positive or negative angles since I went back on twitter and 'found' the madness that is on there.

So I suspect they are total TERFs but just don't want to out themselves.

One of the many awful things about that video of Maria being attacked was one of the aggressors turning on a young woman, who looked all of twenty at the most, on his own side who had the temerity to try to calm him down and restrain him from attacking. Not grabbing, she was very gentle, but obviously unhappy with what was happening and with sympathy for him.

He turned on her and threatened her exactly as he'd threatened Maria, he walked right into her face. You could see everyone there thought she was lucky he hadn't thumped her. Another girl pulled her quickly out of the way and got her to shut up, but she must have been badly shaken. Yes there were plenty of idiots in the group but I wanted to take that one away, make sure she was all right and make some gentle suggestions about the Freedom programme.

I've not spoken to anyone in real life who wasn't entirely supportive. One lesbian relative is halfway on board with the TRAs, but thinks the implications need to be considered more fully. In other words, she's at that stage where she doesn't realise she's a terf.

picklemepopcorn
WRT your first post
Yes that's exactly what I meant!
I think I meant "TRA victim support" or something.
Receivers of TRA crap.
That sort of thing.

Your last post, ah so she's open to being peak transed, I think lesbians are generally on the receiving end of lots of stuff but I guess it depends.

I thought you meant that for many TRAs their education had so clearly failed them that they would need assistance to deal with the world around them.

I’ll take a lemon scented towel, how naice

I got a bit overwhelmed with twitter over the weekend. I only joined to support GC voices but it is a complete cesspit about 85% of the time. I find I can only do a few hours on it now and then before I need to go and look at pictures of dogs or something else to calm me down. Serious hats off and brava to those women who are on there all the time speaking up about this nonsense

Can recommend following Celeste Barber and funny cat/dog Twitters just to break up the endless stream of nonsense.

I follow women's art and vita sackville west's gardening tweets to break up the crazy.

I'm so worried about young women who are caught up in this. I'm a member of a women's online group which is hugely dominated by a TRA. He used to be very close with a young woman in the group and then I realised I haven't seen her posting selfies for a while. She's left the group and I just wonder what happened to her :(

I find I can only do a few hours on it now and then before I need to go and look at pictures of dogs or something else to calm me down.

I’ve decided to give myself weekends off from posting/retweeting anything GC. I also try to fill my feed with nice stuff as I don’t want people to think I’m only there for that one thing.

Interesting about your RL friends TerfragetteCity. I’ve noticed the same. I hope you’re right. I guess the fact they haven’t unfollowed me at least means they accept I have the right to choose.

At the beginning of 2018, I'd only ever read Mumsnet, as a source of information and something to read to be honest.
Since February I think it was, I've now joined Mumsnet, made 3 contributions to political campaigns, attended a feminist meeting and got a Twitter account. I'm so useless at Twitter, it's sad. I still don't get how it works and really need the time to sit down and look at some tutorials. There is a horrendous amount of nasty crap there and I do wonder what the point is of engaging with some people. As has been said, I take some comfort when I speak to others that Twitter views really don't seem to reflect what most people think.

I follow women's art and vita sackville west's gardening tweets to break up the crazy

Are you me? Shit.

Hive mind @TERFragetteCity

Have no females to talk to about this in RL, sister not getting it and may think I am a total bigot ...would like to join a group, did join Fawcett Society but a bit disappointed in them. Only found out late last year that I am a feminist! This from being made aware by Mumsnet. Getting a bit depressed by it all, would like to meet up with others, drink wine and totally vent

I'm a bit confused about twitter. I set up an alt identity, so I could engage more freely. But that one doesn't connect to anyone or anything except trans related stuff- so it doesn't really do anything because it isn't spreading awareness outside the box.

The towels are warm and fluffy from the radiator, by the way, and the kettle's on for hot chocolate with marshmallows on. Everyone welcome after a hard day on the TRA face.

@days of - I'm the same, no friends to talk this through with, I live with males, who are aware, but don't quite see things the same way. I work with men, who expressed shock when I mentioned Self ID, but they're not really interested. I tried to highlight the issue on FB to resounding silence. I think I may have been blocked by at least one person.

I looked for feminist groups to join about 2 years ago thinking there would be a few choices as I live near a large University city. Though there were a number listed, all appeared inactive. It's only recently that I've realised why this may be.

Some gems including someone who really believes women cannot tell the difference between men who say they're women and women. That it's "gaslighting" of me to suggest anyone can tell the difference.

Sorry that we have working eyeballs, mate. I mean, really, is he trying to convince you or himself? There are very few people whose sex can't be identified at a glance, and even in those cases a closer look will usually be enough to figure it out.