Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times today

[MargeH]

Go Rod...

"My favourite politician, Harriet Harman, has come up with an ingenious plan, as is entirely typical of her. She has suggested that the next Labour leadership election should be contested only by female candidates. The men, she says, can “jostle” for the position of deputy.
This is presumably an attempt by Harriet to stop the macho bullies of Momentum winning the race. But there is a problem she may not have foreseen. Labour’s National Executive Committee recently decided that all-women shortlists can include people who identify as women but are not, actually, women. So the next leadership election may be your first and last chance to see Andy Burnham wearing a gingham frock or Sadiq Khan resplendent in a niqab. Men are endlessly inventive when it comes to getting their own way."

I really can't understand why you think that having the same opinion as someone on one subject suggests that you share all their opinions.

sigh. That's not what I said. It would be really nice if people didn't try to misinterpret things to suit the answer they want to give.

Frankly, I simply wouldn't want to be associated in any way with someone like this, even though I dare say he will inevitably have some opinions that coincide with mine - even if it's just on the merits of a sunny day. I would rather ignore him than risk him claiming validation because look, all those sweet little poppets on MN agree with him.

GnotherGnu the sweet little poppets bit I think possibly stems from your own issues rather than anything Liddle is likely to write.
Judging by his column this week tho there is a chance he lurks here in which case, hi rod. You could stand to lose a few pounds mate.

The faction controlling the labour party atm wouldn't work with Mandela's ANC to combat apartheid. Fundamentalists aren't very collaborative or pragmatic I've noticed.

I don’t see that anyone is keen to be aligned with him, I saw it as an appreciation of a mainstream (male, because let’s not pretend that won’t help) voice bringing awareness to the issue.

Rod has a 13 year old daughter (named after a suffragette incidentally) so that is probably why he's paying attention to this.
And yes, I'm pretty sure he does read these threads.

I've found myself on the 'same side' of the debate as Piers Morgan and Richard Littlejohn this week. This in no way defines my political position. It just demonstrates that the left-of-centre commentators I would normally expect to be in (more) agreement with have completely given up on either critical thinking or freedom of speech.

I am less surprised than done by the position of the left on these issues. First, because there has always been a virulent strain of misogyny within the left and I have never bought the notion that left wing men are less likely to hate women than men in the right. Second because the lefts descentbinto identity rather than issue politics has been obvious for some time. Third because the fact that lots of middle class people on the left are motivated by hatred of people of their own type and nation so any movement that seems to be the antithesis of middle classrespectability or Britishness draws them. See Corbyns embrace of Sinn Fein, russsia, fundamentalist Islam.

I am totes not inclined to take anyone seriously who uses the word 'totes'

Whoooosh.......

Where's the dividing line? Should we be supporting <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=uk.therebel.media/tommy_robinson_s_news_roundup_trans_lunacy_and_ironing_machines" target="_blank">Tommy Robinsonn^ and <a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/tv/katie-hopkins-under-fire-transphobic-14107391" target="_blank">Katie Hopkinss^?

What's this "we"? I thought you felt we were all terrible transphobes, GnotherGnu? Has the penny finally dropped that the transagenda is misogynistic and harmful to women?

In The Sun column he called someone who said he "exemplified sexism" for criticising the fact that celebrities like Emma Watson are addressing the UN (when he also criticises Bono etc.) an "air headed bimbo" and "poppet" in exactly the same way that people use sarcy phrases when an MRA comes on here and tells women what they're thinking and what they mean.

I have to say I've not ever really known anything about Rod Liddle - not read any of his stuff until the last few weeks and assumed he was just another Jeremy Clarkson but seems there is more to him if he's mates with Julie Bindel and left the Labour party in disgust at the anti semitism.

I'm sure he has got many opinions I don't agree with but I'm glad he's speaking out on this in a humorous way to ST readers. No doubt that column would have gone down like a lead balloon in The Guardian but it probably had the right touch for the ST and it is good to see men talking about this in a different way from JOB, Ralf Little et al.

Third because the fact that lots of middle class people on the left are motivated by hatred of people of their own type and nation

It's just fascinating that feminists are becoming Alt-Right. Fascinating. It's like you've dipped your toes in and found....hey we're more at home with fascists and boorish, misogynist arseholes like Liddle. First of all you have some gripes about left-wing 'identity politics' even though you're obsessed with identity squabbles yourselves; then you start saying things like 'obviously I don't agree with Charles Murray/Jordan Peterson on everything but a TRA's enemy is my friend', then you start expressing outright admiration for them, and eventually you'll find you're more at home on the idpol right with the likes of Anne Marie Waters.

Like almost all otherwise noble social justice ideologies, there's always been a strain of extreme right thought blemishing feminism - from eugenicist arguments for abortion to tirades about rapine foreigners. I'm sure that not's the politics of everyone on here...but feminism with right-wing tendencies is a potential thing that one should be aware of. You're not beyond corruption just because you're feminists.

It's just fascinating that feminists are becoming Alt-Right.

Oh, get a grip. ID pol (and with it transactivism) is a right wing philosophy masquerading as a progressive one. It has a relentless focus on the individual - hardly a hallmark of left wing thinking. It has a regressive notion of gender - hardly a hallmark of left wing thinking. It has no class or structural analysis - hardly a hallmark of left wing thinking. It has no concept of solidarity - hardly a hallmark of left wing thinking. Its cheerleaders are bourgeois and like it that way - hardly a hallmark of left wing thinking.

Feminists are where they always were. Thinking unchanged. Gender is a system of social control to the detriment of women and the advantage of men (however those men identify). Nowt to do with the alt-right.

The rules of being a 'proper' leftist:

• Any and all aspects of approved groupthink must be adhered to at all times.

• Any dissenting view on any subject, no matter how reasonable that view may be, is to be eradicated.

• Divergence from approved groupthink must be stamped out ASAP - it is your duty as a 'proper' leftist to ensure erasure & immediate dismissals any & all instances of divergence.

• Dissenters must be educated.

(This is best achieved by derision & is most effective when one deploys references to the most extreme right wing and/or fascists; this is proven to be the optimum way to ensure complete control over the thoughts of others)

The whataboutery on this thread is incredible! And coming from a position of telling women that we are wrong to challenge a misogynistic regressive and authoritarian movement.

I always love it when random people pop up on this board to tell women that we're doing feminism wrong. And keep on and on and on about it .

Applauds LanceCleg & BrandySchnapps

- Any and all aspects of approved groupthink must be adhered to at all times.

- Any dissenting view on any subject, no matter how reasonable that view may be, is to be eradicated.

- Divergence from approved groupthink must be stamped out ASAP - it is your duty as a 'proper' leftist to ensure erasure & immediate dismissals any & all instances of divergence.

- Dissenters must be educated.
(This is best achieved by derision & is most effective when one deploys references to the most extreme right wing and/or fascists; this is proven to be the optimum way to ensure complete control over the thoughts of others)

Ha ha ha ha as if that isn't what is happening in MFC.

Projection.

MrsJoJo86
How can this be projection? People are arguing that it's OK to discuss and agree with people like Rod Liddle even when they don't agree with everything he says??

Ahhhh - but maybe you haven't RTFT

I think we all know that when anyone comes on here and diverges a mm from the hive mind they're torn to pieces by the pack.

Mrs jojo when did you start seeing things that aren’t there?
You need some help with that mate.

Slightly off topic, but...is it worth even trying to explain this to someone who is 'woke' on the trans-train already?

So far it has remained civil and other people present have been slightly peaking. But has anyone got any experience of someone 'turning' - even just a little bit - or am I just completely wasting my time (with this person - as I say, there are others who are about it)

Maybe it's time for a few people to refresh their grip on common logical fallacies, in particular ad hominem and reductions ad Hitlerium ?

He he. It must be pretty frustrating waiting and waiting for us to let our radfem masks slip. I'm sorry you're having to invent 'eugenicist arguments for abortion' and 'tirades against foreigners' to bolster your view of us as secretly alt-right. Unless you can quote any of us on these points?

Broadly agreeing with a Rod Liddle column in the times probably isn't the evidence you were looking for though is it

Gnu: You said "I'm a very firm believer in free speech".

I hate to break it to you, but that means you have rather a lot of shared ground with Tommy Robinson (whom I agree with about various things, as I do with Rod Liddell: shoot me now).

Who needs evidence when you can read minds, tallulah?

MrsJoJo, I think Jordan Peterson talks a lot of sense too. Is that ok with you? Am I allowed?