Rod Liddle in the Sunday Times today

[MargeH]

Go Rod...

"My favourite politician, Harriet Harman, has come up with an ingenious plan, as is entirely typical of her. She has suggested that the next Labour leadership election should be contested only by female candidates. The men, she says, can “jostle” for the position of deputy.
This is presumably an attempt by Harriet to stop the macho bullies of Momentum winning the race. But there is a problem she may not have foreseen. Labour’s National Executive Committee recently decided that all-women shortlists can include people who identify as women but are not, actually, women. So the next leadership election may be your first and last chance to see Andy Burnham wearing a gingham frock or Sadiq Khan resplendent in a niqab. Men are endlessly inventive when it comes to getting their own way."

There was quite a decent article in the i print edition yesterday, featuring Amy D by name.
It was perhaps a bit too even handed but that's not a bad thing if it starts people thinking.

Marge good point. I may be an old fashioned lefty myself but I'm ashamed of my party at the moment and quite embarrassed at how tribal I used to be.

I use the app, I can't see any way to add comments from it.

The more that the self ID issue is exposed in mainstream debate the better.

The I article is also online here and does include some misquotes. “Claims that” could have implications for prisons and hospital wards - I told her that’s already happening.

It was painfully straddling the fence but is, of course, out in the open. Even 2 weeks ago I think we wouldn’t have had a long read style article about the rollback of women’s rights in the name of progressive trans nonsense.

Is there anyone else apart from RL saying, straight up, this is misogyny? Happy to be wrong on that.

Men are endlessly inventive when it comes to getting their own way

This works so well coming from Rod Liddle. But try telling people men will abuse self id, as a woman..........? You just get 'nice trans people wouldn't do that' and the point is missed and ignored.

I tried to find the article but ended up findin* one on guiding instead

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/gender-swap-boys-spark-guides-revolt-wtcv7xjk5

Welcome Marge,

There are people with strong views here but it’s good

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nothing-proves-jeremy-corbyn-is-anti-semitic-just-everything-he-says-anddoes-sh0n23hg0?shareToken=af852b89b79b6e1e0a18f22783d11523" target="_blank">go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nothing-proves-jeremy-corbyn-is-anti-semitic-just-everything-he-says-anddoes-sh0n23hg0?shareToken=af852b89b79b6e1e0a18f22783d11523

Someone's linked the petition in one of the comments!

How can a women's college ban the word woman?

I can see the comments as I am using a laptop - I don't have a subscription though. They are focusing much more on the anti-Semitic angle. No quarrels with that, but can people get on it, and draw it more onto the Transgender issues?

Link to the petition SAGES leaflet, article on Girl Guides, A Woman's Place etc.

I saw the petition mentioned, but I think it would be good to get a few more references.

So Lansman what circumstances would lead to trans women not being seen as women?

When they want to have sex with him, or he's otherwise directly inconvenienced in some way.

I mean, let's be honest.

So this week JK Rowling has got a mauling from the 'she' wolves, someone suggested Ricky Gervais is coming under fire for his stand up about trans, its not surprising people are afraid to speak out. But speak out we must and I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with anyone from any party if we agree on this issue.
On Wednesday I went to my local Labour women's forum to raise the issue. I never go to meetings and was pretty scared but I did. We will be debating the issue next meeting as a result.
I'm staying in the party to argue my position and will keep doing it until they chuck me out.
I can't believe our rights are under such attack.

I like the other item in Liddle's column about having sex with transwomen, which concludes "They really don’t like women very much, do they?"

As for the right/left thing, I'm on the left but very happy to have allies on the centre and right, and wouldn't criticise anyone on Mumsnet who's coming from that position. To my mind, this really isn't a left/right issue, it's a sane/utterly batshit issue. Any ordinary, not particularly political person can immediately see the dangers with self ID and would find notions such as the cotton ceiling utterly absurd. The whole thing is being driven by a tiny but vocal contingent of men's rights activists who have somehow managed to persuade the more gullible and/or women-hating sections of the left that this is a progressive issue.

Go Blythe

I think it's great that Liddle is saying what he is. I'm not sure I could say I love him given past actions of his though.

He is definitely saying things that need to be said. But he is equally no feminist hero.

I think it's also really important to try and open up the middle ground of the debate. There are plenty of well meaning people on both sides, and it does no one in the debate good to create more tension than needed.

He has an excellent point but has ruined it with his racist comment...

I am on a mission to contact more community leaders, Town Councillers etc about the GRA, and highlight the effects the changes will have on their communities. Particularly areas like Leicester, which have a high number of people from more conservative cultures

I want to include a clear description of the facts, written as from the Government proposals, (so it won't come across as biased/making a point) and then move on to something like the SAGES leaflet, which shows the affects the changes will have.

Can anyone link me to a document that outlines the Government's position clearly, please? I know there have been ones on here, but have a huge amount of my own work to do, and I don't really have much time to look!

TIA x

He is definitely saying things that need to be said. But he is equally no feminist hero.

He is not but it's important that the Overton Window is moved so this is not purely framed as a feminist issue. It's also about freedom of speech, the politics and behaviour of political parties (especially Labour) and the safeguarding of children and young people.

It says a lot about where we are right now, when an old-style socialist like Rod is called right wing.

He's not afraid to call a spade an effing shovel and right now, in PC-UK, that sounds like a breath of fresh air. Men who might not listen to the 'feminazis' might just listen to him.