What do you use the womens’ toilets for?

[FancyRibbon]

Inspired by recent posts on the Radio 4 thread.
I realised that the whole ‘Why do you even care who is pissing in the cubicle next to you?’ argument against single sex toilets underestimates how I think many women actually do use/need the ladies’.

It’s not just about the cubicle being private to you as an individual woman (though this is really important), it’s also about knowing there is a door behind which there is a women-only space that can be really important. Some of that is specifically about it NOT being a male space.

So eg what I use the women’s toilets for is:

• pissing, crapping, dealing with periods, POAS
• a place to cry especially at work when you don’t want anyone else to see
• a place to go and just sit and feel exhausted because your baby is not sleeping and you’re back at work

-as above washing and drying breastmilk leaks on clothes which involving standing about with some stuff off

• a place to sort out falling down tights and gappy shirts, -against adjusting/taking off clothes possibly while checking in a mirror
• somewhere to talk to other women privately knowing men won’t be around
• in bars and clubs, a place to get away from male hassle

I just don’t want to share women’s toilets with men. Self ID will be making that not my choice any more. I feel that I won’t be able to just avoid gender neutral toilets and look for a women’s any more, because women’s toilets won’t exist and campaigning for them will be hate speech.

Usual boduly function stuff already mentioned on here.

Adjusting tights and wedgied knickers, changing or wiping down clothes if i have spilt coffee etc. I have had to fully strip dd after knicker wetting incidents in public female loos.

I also have ibs, i can be in the toilet for a long time, its embarrassing enough as it is and i'd find it infinitely more so if my male boss were in the cubicle next to me dor example.

Self ID will be making that not my choice any more

If self ID didn't exist, what difference would that make to who can go into a male or female toilet under the current system?

I do, however, think there’s a bigger picture to be taken into account which is what I’ve expressed.

What would that bigger picture be exactly?

No, the point about controlling partners - both male and female could self id to follow a partner into loo.

Ok. But I don't see how this negates the arguments against self id. Surely you're just strengthening the argument against it. Let's assume, men are equally at risk from their violent, abusive female partners, then surely they deserve a safe space away from them in order to call a friend or Mankind or the police too..?

The whole cis thing baffles me, I’m a woman. I have a vagina.

Cis doesn't mean you are a biological woman. It means that you are a biological woman and have accepted the associated socially constructed 'gender identity' (e.g. all the "girls should..." / "girls don't..." / "girls like.." restrictions and expectations) that goes with it. I am a biological woman but I haven't accepted the associated gender identity. In fact, I've spent most of my life battling against it.

So yes, I do find it offensive. It misgenders me. Which, I believe, is considered in the transworld to be a "literal violence".

Why would I occupy the disabled/accessible loo when I have no disabilities, and weeing with the door open to see the double buggy works?
If there was a high risk of male gaze I would of course occupy the accessible loo to the detriment of those who really need it.

And this would disproportionately affect women. When was the last time you saw a sole male out with multiple small children? One - yes, two - occasionally. 3? Once in a blue moon? But women - all the time.

It's like SAHps. We get the dad's all the time at toddler groups for the first child. But never subsequent children.

When on the rare occasions DH takes ours out solo if he needs a wee he uses a urinal and turns the buggy to the wall. But it's not great tbh.

What level of lack of empathy do you have to have in order not to understand why a woman desperate enough to be phoning a women's aid line in a public toilet might not want to do this in front of a man?
Fuck off with your nonbio-woman shit.

I use the ladies to urinate, very rarely defecate, sort out make up and readjust tights, retuck blouses etc. In the olden days I'd change babies' nappies on my knee too. I don't want men in there - people with penises to spell it out, because I don't want to do those things in front of them.

For me 'cis' is superfluous. I'm a woman. Like non-decaffeinated coffee is just coffee! I'm just a woman. No need for anything else to complicate things.

I have said on other threads that while unisex cubicles might seem like a good option (and, in some situations, I would agree), I would be very sad to lose communal facilities. For young women, in particular, loos provide really valuable places for bonding and sharing experiences. I have had important conversations over the loo door about periods and pain - conversations that couldn’t wait. Also many conversations huddled around the sinks, usually about men. These things may seem frivilous, but I think they are really important.

I’m not disagreeing - I’m trying to say that there should be both male and female spaces. It’s not just that men will be able to access female spaces, it’s both. It’s stronger to argue it from all sides than just th me female point of view.

I don’t agree with self Id - but I think there are bigger issues than toilets.

Honestly, I don’t want to engage with the whole cis thing. I have the vagina I was born with, I am a woman and that’s the end of it.

Name change fail

I have only ever used toilets for their most obvious purpose and would not persinally be bothered if there were a man in the next cubicle.That doesn't mean I don't understand the other uses mentioned on this thread or support other women in their need for female only spaces.

Another one: I have used the public ladies just to kill time when waiting at train stations late at night when I didn’t feel safe on the concourse on my own.

Ok well in our office lavs over the past decade (aside from usual functions) we've had women:

sorting out breast-milk leaks
sorting out menstrual leaks
enduring morning sickness
and, very sadly, in one case, having a miscarriage

Another one: it was very common to tell your young girls and women when going out that if they were being bothered by a man/boy, to go to the women's because there would be other women there that could help them, or they would be safe enough as there was at least a good chance that people seeing a man enter the women's would speak up or come to check out what is going on.

What about Muslim women who use the ladies toilets to take off their headscarves to freshen up? And other religions where a woman's hair is covered?

I am also one who has to pee with the door open with a buggy half in so I can stop the little legs running off/ causing havoc - I do this because I know the only people around are women....

Do you know what, there doesn’t need to be a reason. We have sex segregated facilities and we want to keep them. End of. I’m sick of having to provide justification for why women need their own space. Why are we constantly having to come up with reasons why we don’t want men in female spaces? Let’s just say no. We’d like to keep it how it is. No is a complete sentence

We can't just say no because we don't have the power to refuse admission.
You can only say no if you have the power to back it up.

I used to use toilets in bars and clubs to escape grabby men.

More recently

To change my knickers after flooding.
To empty my mooncup
To deal with miscarriages
To clean up lochia
To deal with period shits!
To pump breast milk
To change breast pads
To insert vaginal suppositories
To rinse breast milk stains
To reapply deodorant
To pluck one of those stray chin hairs that pop up from nowhere in what feels like the space of 4 mins!

I have IBS, my daughter has Ulcerative Colitis and dealing with flare ups when out and about is embarrassing enough as it is. Having to share toilets with men would just add to the humiliation and therefore deter me from visiting certain places.

I've seen a few posters on this thread basically saying they don't want any trans, even post-op trans, in the women's toilets.

Just curious, for those who don't want post-op trans to use the women's toilets, where do you want them to go?

Do you know, this debate on here has really opened my eyes. I have heard women, usually feminist activists, talking about safe spaces for years. But it has never really clicked what that actually means. I wonder how many other women like me, who have been relatively lucky in their dealings with men just the one attempted rape are similarly oblivious. I have taken women only spaces, fought for by our ancestors, for granted. Now we're in danger of losing them altogether.

Post op transwomen & full time transwomen who live fully as women full time ALREADY use womens spaces.

"Transwomen" who were men yesterday and will be men again on Monday NEED to use women toilets over the weekend why exactly??

We are all still women.
A woman is an adult human female.
Women are not failed men and failed men are not women.

It’s not OK to say, we should just use the disabled loo as a family toilet space when you have young kids and buggies to accommodate. Disabled loos are for the use of disabled people only.
That doesn’t bother her