What do you use the womens’ toilets for?

[FancyRibbon]

Inspired by recent posts on the Radio 4 thread.
I realised that the whole ‘Why do you even care who is pissing in the cubicle next to you?’ argument against single sex toilets underestimates how I think many women actually do use/need the ladies’.

It’s not just about the cubicle being private to you as an individual woman (though this is really important), it’s also about knowing there is a door behind which there is a women-only space that can be really important. Some of that is specifically about it NOT being a male space.

So eg what I use the women’s toilets for is:

• pissing, crapping, dealing with periods, POAS
• a place to cry especially at work when you don’t want anyone else to see
• a place to go and just sit and feel exhausted because your baby is not sleeping and you’re back at work

-as above washing and drying breastmilk leaks on clothes which involving standing about with some stuff off

• a place to sort out falling down tights and gappy shirts, -against adjusting/taking off clothes possibly while checking in a mirror
• somewhere to talk to other women privately knowing men won’t be around
• in bars and clubs, a place to get away from male hassle

I just don’t want to share women’s toilets with men. Self ID will be making that not my choice any more. I feel that I won’t be able to just avoid gender neutral toilets and look for a women’s any more, because women’s toilets won’t exist and campaigning for them will be hate speech.

I was thinking about this today on the public toilet, vulnerable with my clothes around my ankles.

Currently, if a no-good un male comes in to attack me, or stick a camera under the door, or wank in the cubicle next to me, it’s already obvious that he’s up to no good when he enters the main area. Maybe someone will follow him in and challenge him, maybe someone in the main area will challenge him. That’s a vital few seconds in which the attack could be prevented. With self-ID we lose that window.

. Men have their own toilets, there are no proposals that I'm aware of to have anyone else encroach on them.

Surely it goes two ways? Women will be able to encroach on male only spaces?

I don’t disagree that we should be able to have women’s only spaces, but I do think some of the reasoning is OTT. When that happens the argument loses a bit of its strength and credibility in my opinion.

Do we have to call men 'nonbio women' now? They're going to love that, even though IT IS A FACT.

Oh god yes SpringHen how could I forget that one. I have done the same with the pushchair and door open so I can keep an eye on the baby. And make sure the toddler doesn’t scream too much outside because they are scared of the hand drier going off.

And also helping older (but young) children on the toilet with the door open because toilet cubicles there isn’t ever enough space for me, all our coats and bags and crap, a pushchair and scooter, a small child on the adult toilet who needs helping to balance on the seat and wipe themselves all at the same time. So our door is wide open to the rest of the ladies.

So there is a child privacy issue here too about having men in the same space, I hadn’t really considered that. Ugh.

I'm a straight, traditional, middle aged woman. I use the lavatory for weeing and pooing and washing my hands. I have no issue with a shared space but all the non gendered lavatories I have ussd have been discreet cubicles containing wash basin and everything else one might need. No gaps above and below and no rows in a communal room with separate wash basins. In fact they are more private and better.

I have on occasion when the queue for the ladies has wound round ghe door, occasionally slipped into the gents when necessary.

At home I share the lavatory with dh and ds. I am equal to all men and all women however they identify. Really not an issue.

Really not an issue.

For you. But there are plenty of women for whom it is.

As far as I'm concerned, as long as there is one woman left on this planet that does not want to share her space with males, then they need to stay out.

They HAVE their own spaces. They don't need ours too.

Well I am not equal to men because I can get pregnant

genuine question rainbows - how comes all the toilets you frequent are like that - none of the public in my town are like that

I'm fine with the type you describe, but ours are the doors you can see over and under and have sinks in a communal area and as I say the locks are often broken

Not quite sure what's so private about putting on make up or why it's ok to phone woman's aid in front of possible 10 bio women but not in front of 1 nonbio. Oh wait I forgot I'm in the realms of all men are woman beaters and every man is a potential sex offender

Has it crossed your mind that self-ID would allow controlling partners to accompany their partners into the women’s loos so that the most closely guarded ones never get the chance to call for help?

Why would a child not be in a male toilet in the same way though? Less common, for sure, but not necessarily an argument.

If you’re leaving the door open for room I’d expect you to use the accessible/baby change toilet - it’s not something I’ve ever come across in a public toilet.

To me it’s just about having reasonable expectations of privacy (inside the cubicle) and then same inside the rest of the toilet area (ie relative privacy because it is a single sex environment).
Providing this is recognising that women as a class have reasons to want to be away from men sometimes.
I really couldn’t give a shit about the sexual orientation or whatever of the women I am in that confined space with, I just don’t want men in there.

Women won't want to access men's toilets, Lobster. For the same reasons we don't want men in ours.

aah yes, I'm so stupid - I should have used the non existent accessible baby change toilet. loads of loos have the baby change not in a cubicle and the accessible toilet has a radar key. you've not seen it, ive seen it loads.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar

you’ve lost me now. Women can be domestic abusers, sexual predators etc too. It’s got to be a two way argument, women aren’t all perfect.

Grass - I understand that sometimes disabled loos have radar keys (I have one myself), where I am most don’t though.

I think what would bother me is that public toilets are usually at the back of shops or restaurants etc, they’re usually fairly dark ie without windows for people to see in. As most men are physically taller and stronger than me, if they were to attack me, no one would be able to see to intervene.

Also a toilet is somewhere where I’m getting my genitals out, and I don’t want a strange man near me when that’s happening.

It’s not that I think that I will be attacked, but I like the reassurance that I won’t be if only women are in there.

Not all of these reasons apply to cis women.

Misgendering much...

Men are not at risk of attack when a woman walks into their toilet, Lobster, what's so hard to grasp?

Has it crossed your mind that self-ID would allow controlling partners to accompany their partners into the women’s loos so that the most closely guarded ones never get the chance to call for help?

Important point. Needs bolding so no one can disingenuously pretend they haven't read it.

There may be less of a risk, but there is still s risk. Not all men are predators, not all women are perfect.

Again, it’s a good point golden which works both ways

-Stripping to bra to clean baby sick off top.

• Stripping to knickers to wash period leak off skirt then using ineffective hand dryer to dry it.
• Checking appearance in mirror - including awkwardly trying to see if period stain is visible.
• Getting away from men (even if only because they are being emotionally draining)
• Taking kids to toilet
• sewing split clothes
• asking other women for spare tampons/giving other women spare tampon.
• checking if a woman is okay
• pulling up my tights
• doing medical stuff

...

women aren’t all perfect

Who said they were? This thread is about what women do in toilets, aside from peeing. Some of these things may add weight to the reasons they don't want penis in there, whatever special inner identity any particular penis has decided it has.

Absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether any particular woman is a nice woman or not. Stop derailing conversations to hold women to standards of perfection before they're allowed to talk about themselves. That's called misogyny.

I find cis offensive. It doesn't 'define' me.

To wash my hands.

To queue along with other women.

To sometimes go to try to break wind. Silently.

To relieve my bladder.

To wash myself intimately or to change clothes.

To cry or just sit down.

I have shared my intimate moments and I'm aware that some people get off on this.

Not all men are predators, not all women are perfect.

Best keep them separate then, to protect the men from these rampaging women.