Still cross about stall at primary school Spring Fair...WWYD?

[Wigeon]

So, one of the stalls at DD’s infant school yesterday was called “Don’t judge a book by it’s [sic] cover” and had a load of books wrapped in brown paper. You could choose a mystery book for 30p. BUT, each book had written on it either “B+G”, “B” or “G”, indicating whether the book was for boys or girls or both.

The irony when the stall was about not judging a book by its cover!

I started talking to two teachers who were standing nearby (women in their 20s), who both looked a bit embarrassed, one said “yes, I thought that was a bit odd”. Tried to ask them whether a book about trucks or dinosaurs wasn’t for my DD. What about a book about space, or the work of the police - was that a boy book or a girl book, or perhaps both? Then found a pen so I could re-label every book “B+G”, but stopped short of doing anything as it felt like I was interfering.

I think the stall had probably been organised by a well-meaning parent volunteer, so I think the teachers probably didn’t want to change it.

What would you have done? How come even young women who are in charge of teaching young children don’t feel this is sufficiently problematic to do something about it?

I would have done nothing. People know their child's likes and dislikes and if you think your child would like something traditionally associated with boys you can encourage them to choose one.

If someone had re-labelled books to B&G and my son had come away with a book about fairies he'd have been gutted and I'd have been quite cross.

Some people follow traditions and it is not your place to take away that choice.

I worked on a lucky dip stall at my school fair, where there was a boy bin and a girl bin. Only one girl asked if she could dip into the boy bin. The rest were quite happy to stick to their allocated bins. I don't think some of the boys at our school would be overly impressed with a pink butterfly pencil topper! One of the boys prizes contained a pink balloon, and he asked if he could swap.

well.......
agree in principle.
but if i had a kid that liked the flower fairies at least id have had a 50/50 chance of getting something reasonable.
back in the last century when i was a kid i always used to pick from the boys lucky dip despite being a girl. better chance of something i would like.

Hummm. I totally agree with you - it’s a horribly limiting approach - but I can see how they got there: a lucky dip always has the potential to frustrate kids and there is real potential to get a book you’re not interested in! I wouldn’t want to be the person who had to jolly along a load of five year olds who’ve got books they’re not remotely interested in. In other words - I suspect it’s an issue with the unwrapped book concept per se. I wonder if you could suggest a themed based letter approach - so S = sport; n = nature; f = fantasy & fairies ... then kids can choose a topic they are personally interested in regardless of sex.
What I would say is, if you want to change it, offer to help. Say you are happy to rewrap/relabel any time before the next fair. Nothing worse than people who tell volunteers how to do stuff then wander off!

I agree with the PP. My son would not want a book about fairies or princesses though some boys in his class would and could pick a 'g' book. One of my DDs would happily read a book about trucks so could pick any of the books but the other DD would not be interested in traditionally boy topics at all so would go for 'g'. I think they were trying to help people get a book they may have a chance of liking. I like the idea of the stall. Surely science and geography and animal books would have been labelled 'b & g'?

Challenge it at the next parent teacher council meeting (where it was probably organised) and get involved yourself.

Our school moved to one generic lucky dip with toys for everyone a few years ago thanks to the head teacher who quite rightly thought girl and boy lucky dips were.a load of nonsense.

Some people follow traditions and it is not your place to take away that choice.

Well then maybe a “don’t judge the book by its cover” setup where you can’t see the book isn’t the best place for them? Not like there’s nowhere else to buy books!

OP I’d be right with you. If they felt the need to give the kids a bit of information about the book, couldn’t they just put a very brief summary on the cover/next to the pile? That’s what I’ve seen bookshops do with this sort of thing.

Milk - what is it about fairies that makes them inappropriate for boys to read about? Why doesn’t your son like fairies? Would he like a book about elves or sprites - they are more appropriate masculine magical tiny creatures perhaps? There is literally nothing innate about a fairy which makes it inappropriate for a boy, apart from years and years of cultural conditioning which has told that young boy that he shouldn’t like fairies because they are for girls. And this stall is part of that problem.

It’s not a genuine matter of choice and personal preference when 99% of infant-aged children would say that books on cars are for boys and books about fairies are for girls. If it was genuine choice, more of the boys would choose the fairy book and the girls would the car book.

The irony of the name of the stall. There is so much gender neutral stuff that anything specifically aimed at boys or girls could easily be avoided so that was lazy on the part of the organiser, Ditto lucky dips.

I would have been most upset by that random apostrophe tbh...;)

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what is it about fairies that makes them inappropriate for boys to read about? - it's not inappropriate, some children (both boys and girls) don't like them.

Why doesn’t your son like fairies? - I'd ask him, but he's still asleep. He's allowed to have likes and dislikes about what he reads and no-one should judge that. I don't judge your choices.

Would he like a book about elves or sprites - they are more appropriate masculine magical tiny creatures perhaps? - No he doesn't. Do you have a problem with that? Why?

I don't get it either OP. If they want it to be a random pick then make it random. If they want people to chose a book they think they will like, then make it a book stall.

I think this is actually a problem with the books that are out there for kids today. I don't remember there being such a specific marketing of girl books and boy books when I was an avid reader as a child in the 70s/80s

To posters saying I don’t have a right to raise this if I haven’t volunteered myself: one of the thing she stoping me complaining in the moment was that I hadn’t volunteered on this particular occasion, although I have for years helped this school in many ways, including being a governor for three years as well as volunteering on trips, at other events like this etc.

But I think it’s rubbish to say that because I didn’t volunteer on the particular occasion I have no right to criticise. The reason I didn’t volunteer this time:

I am having a hugely busy time at my work, which is directly about reducing inequalities for children. I am exhausted and have no more time to give.

I am a (volunteer) trustee for my local women’s centre, and also spending a huge amount of time on that at the moment, giving opportunities for local women to fulfil their potential.

So I do go out of my way to volunteer and give my time, and I’m grateful that other parents did this time. But literally labelling some subjects as boy subjects and others as girl subjects is exactly the reason why girls don’t become engineers, boys don’t become primary school teachers, and we are worse off as a society because of it.

When bookshops do this they add a bit of blurb, so a book about fairies could be:

Contains magic, nature and flying!
Or
A magical woodland story

A book about space could be:

Contains planets, space shuttles and astronauts
Or
An out-of-this-world adventure

I think it’s a good idea poorly executed, so some constructive criticism would help them next time.

What would I do - join the PTA, get involved, have a discussion, and reach a consensus with those that have given up there time to help raise funds.

Bitterboy, any children's author worthy of the name e.g. Michael Morpugo, Ronald Dahl, writes for all audiences.

I do not doubt you have done plenty of volunteering. But you will have a bigger impact if you don't deface the stall on the day (which obviously you didn't) but get involved at the planning/suggesting stage.

I'm right with you op, this would have pissed me off too. Little divisions and labels like this are the drip drip effect of sexism.

Re the random apostrophe in a school setting- that sort of thing drives me nuts.
One time I was looking at a display at a school fair and a lady asked me if I liked it. "Yes, it's great, shame about the spelling on the labels!"
She had written them.
Op - I probably would have picked up a pen too.

Milk - been thinking about this “personal choice” point while cleaning my teeth. The thing is, if you asked boys and girls if they prefer apples or bananas, or fishfingers or sausages, probably half the boys would prefer apples and half would prefer bananas. Or half would prefer fishfingers and half sausages. It’s their genuine personal choice.

But when 99% of young boys would say they prefer truck books to fairy books, that can’t possibly be personal choice. And I do judge - not them personally, but society which has led them to believe fairies are for girls. Whereas no one told them for years and years that apples, or fishfingers, were only for boys, and so they are able to express a genuine preference for those foods.

As someone said above it's a great idea poorly executed.

I've seen similar marketed to adults as a 'book blind date' with a bit of info about genre and theme, so I think that's the way to go.

Next PTA: "this was a great idea, I wonder if we could label differently? Obviously a faff with books still wrapped from last time, but I'm more than happy to help."

FGS, a primary school fair isn't the time to go on about gender stereotypes.
I think its a good idea personally, so the kids can pick an appropriate book. That goes for either sex - if a girl is more into space and monsters and cars, the she can choose a book marked B

But literally labelling some subjects as boy subjects and others as girl subjects is exactly the reason why girls don’t become engineers, boys don’t become primary school teachers, and we are worse off as a society because of it

It may have a tiny impact but I doubt it's the reason in the main. Role models, household work ethic, education has much more impact in a choice outcome than something being labelled as a boys or girls thing.

I suppose it's a similar scenario to the presents on the santa train being labelled with childrens ages.
Santa was in a pickle when it came to my eldest who was a teenager at the time (14 I think) but had the mind of a one year old.
Did he give him a gift for a teenager or a baby?
I put him out of his misery and opted for the baby gift.
What's the point in him having something aimed at the average teen when he's still at the rattle stage.

In the garnd scheme of things I don't think I'd be too fussed about the "B" or "G" labels. It's just a lucky dip. The child will either enjoy the book or they won't.