Radio 4 now

[Pratchet]

Listen back to Lucy Massoud on Radio 4 - she is stellar. She's on now.

Reposting from the petition thread in the hopes Lucy will see this:

I sent my MIL the petition link last week. Lucy Masoud’s interview on the Today programme yesterday convinced her to sign. Go MIL!

Thank you Lucy!

Yes Lucy really rocked!
Please everyone have no tolerance for that 'trans woman, black woman' equivalence argument. It is as racist as hell and please have no hesitation in saying so to whoever is using it.

Lucy kicks ass, she is so strong and articulate and no-fucks-to-give, the transborg must fucking hate her.

Sending her love and support because she will be targeted by the violent men who are sent into paroxysms of rage when faced with a woman who doesn't know her place. I want to see her on @bbcquestiontime because I am sick to death of the mealy mouthed approach most women have on this with their hesitant talk of "questions" "reservations" etc. Fuck it, hearing someone speak truth straight out, is so refreshing.

And would make excellent TV.

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/voices/lucy-masoud-fbu-lgbt-trans-london-fire-brigade-union-today-transphobic-a8267096.html%3famp They do hate her

Bollocks to that bullshit.

"Bollocks to that bullshit."

Sums it all up.

From the Indy
"but showed a deep misunderstanding of the experience of being transgender, which she admitted herself – “I’m not even sure what that means.”

No, that was in response to the term 'women with trans experience', but they knew that.

That article refers to concerns over Self-ID as "ridiculous" who's mocking who here?

That bloody article - me me me me, no one matters but me, help me I'm being erased by mean women who won't nurture me, this is so sad for me, put me first and take care of meeeee.....

Spectacularly misses the point.

Not about you, about self ID.
Not about you, about any man being able to walk into any woman's space whether trans or a rapist with no gatekeeping
Not about you, about not removing the right of every women to feel comfortable and safe too because everyone with xx chromosomes is not your mummy and women are humans too
Not about you, about law being based on reality and fact, not feelings

Much to be positive about this morning (thanks Sweary and Yesitsadebate) but I'm getting heartily sick of the apparently wilful misunderstanding of what we're saying. No one wants gender dysphoric people to be intimidated or punished. Lip-wobbling pieces like the Indy one are not what this debate is about at all.

I think we need to start bringing AGP very much into the forefront of the discussion now.

I think someone needs to say to Paris every time IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU

The problem with all this trans stuff is that trans people want trans rights to trump women's rights. It's as simple as that.

Just going back to the trans women, black women, disabled women ... thing - these statements also assume that proper feminists (ie those who centre women in their feminism) are all white. We're not. And this characterisation of our position as 'white feminism' is silencing black women's voices. It's massively racist.

CapnHaddock

They don't really care whether you're white or not.

I watched a conversation unfold, where black women were being appropriated by transwomen 'for the cause' but I knew one of the woman was black.

When she pointed that out, and therefore, she was in a position to refute what they were saying, he turned on her and told her that she was part of the oppressor group.

A middle-aged white man telling a black woman, who had an incredible backstory of disadvantage, that she was opressing him.

It was disgusting and frightening in equal measure.

Urgh that article is infuriating. She's a non-binary person. So basically a straight woman who doesn't like her body very much. Welcome to being a woman dear. [rolleyes]

And I call utter fucking bullshit on her being "asked to leave women’s facilities too many times to count."

She is a woman and I very much doubt any other women read her as anything other than a woman.

I've seen at least half a dozen black women called white feminists in the last few weeks. I think it's the TRA's latest favourite language vandalism!

Men are just loving this opportunity to shriek spittle-filled invective at women and feel all self-righteous about it aren't they?

I really hadn't realised how much so many men hate women until this all blew up.

And I call utter fucking bullshit on her being "asked to leave women’s facilities too many times to count."

It's strange, there are countless TIM who say that they never have any problems using women's facilities, yet a women in a hat can't get through the tough security.

And I call utter fucking bullshit on her being "asked to leave women’s facilities too many times to count."

So do I. She is a woman who looks like a woman, however much she may define herself as 'a non-binary person'.

Of course they hate Lucy. She's a woman.

Meanwhile Ricky Gervais gets a pass for his non-believer comments. And David Davies gets a pass for apparently orchestrating hate at the House of Commons.

They will only ever go after women.

The comments on that article are really good though. Heartening.

Weird isn't it LostArt? Anyone would think she was stretching the truth to fit her own narrative

I've now read quite a few more of her articles. Her poor parents. I was fairly insufferable at that age but at least I didn't have the press giving my self-righteous ramblings airtime.

"If I was a fire fighter facing transphobia at work I would feel like the last person I could speak to was my union representative".

If trans people are too frightened to approach Lucy at work because of her views, how are women experiencing sexism in the Labour Party supposed to approach the Women's Officer Lily Madigan, given LM's views?

It rather looks like double standards.

I spent the entirety of my school years mortified every time we had to get changed for sports classes. I would rush to get to the changing room quickly so that I could be there at a different time to everyone else, or at least get a spot in the corner where I could hide.

Umm it was like this for me too and I'm a non-queer biological woman. Feeling miserable and awkward about your body as a young woman/teenager is pretty common. The problem is being made to feel that way by society, as well as making teens get changed in communal areas if they don't want to, as that makes bullying and self-loathing more likely.

It seems really clear to me that a huge amount of people's transgender and "non-binary" feelings are actually about self-loathing and not feeling comfortable in their body and ridiculously strictly prescribed gender role. It's a fashionable solution to that actually pretty normal feeling, and it also attracts certain people because it gives them a ready-made identity and cause.

I have seen a family member go through this - basically searching for any self-ID that would make then feel special and different from the "self" and body that they have problems with - unsurprisingly after an abusive childhood. Of course it feels real to them having settled on "non-binary" (for now) and of course I can't say anything to question it.

(That quote was from the linked article btw, not a PP)

Also regarding
Particularly questioning why, and I quote, 'trans women, black woman, poor women and disabled women' weren't woman enough for her feminism

What??? I'm gobsmacked at this. What feminist ever said black poor and disabled women aren't "woman enough"? - it's quite the opposite IME. Haven't they noticed that a number of the feminists taking on this argument are one or more of these things?

Talk about straw man. How pathetic.

Re "Woman with a trans experience", excuse my rhyming but to me that equates to " 'woman' with a man's experience". It is because these trans women have grown up with a man's experience of society and gender that they feel so comfortable attacking and belittling women.

Sophia Banks erasing black women's experience

hello everyone. I am Lucy who was on the Today Programme yesterday, I just wanted to say a big thanks for all the lovely comments and support. You know you're on the right side when Mumsnet are in your corner