Update on interactions with the Green Party on self-id

[MsMcWoodle]

Update on my interactions with the Green Party for anyone who is interested.
Letter to Baroness Jenny Jones – reply from her office saying that she shared my concerns.
Letter to GP head office. I will share it here so that you can fully understand the response – then I’ll have to name change… This is after a bit of back-and-forth where they were trying to palm me off. My letter -

‘This is not a minor policy disagreement. This is fundamental. Please could I have an answer to my questions?

^1. I was abused by my male doctor. He has since been struck off. Are you really saying that I should not have a choice re the biological sex of my health care professional?
2. I was threatened by a group of transsexuals in a women’s toilet. One of them went on to commit murder. I would feel scared to be threatened by anyone, but these men had a huge advantage of me physically. Are you really saying that I should welcome physical males into female-only spaces
3. Why is the Green Party going against the Equality Act 2010 part 7?
4. Why is the Green Party seeking to silence debate on this subject?
5. Why is the Green Party silent on the threats to women who want to discuss this? (Link to terfisaslur website)

I thought that the Green Party was the party of science. Why is it ignoring basic biological fact?
You are not on the side of history. This will come back to bite you.
The Emperor has no clothes.’^

The response I got back was:

^‘As stated in our initial response, the Green Party respects all our members, and works hard to ensure we promote equality and fairness.

Please address your legal or medical questions with the relevant authorities.’^

Yesterday – a new development. A Green Party councillor was canvassing in my street. I got chatting to her and she seemed to understand my concerns. She took my email address and told me that she had linked to the petition on her Facebook page. She invited me on the page for a chat. I spent a good couple of hours there, so I won’t repeat it all but here are some of the gems:
In response to my comment about Mumsnet - 'I'm speechless. Mumsnet (possibly 100% heterosexual women with children) is not the place to educate yourself.

On the request for consultation with women –‘ It reminds me tragically of the kind of stuff right wing evangelicals come out with in the US.’
In response to my question about how self-id will play to religious communities – ‘Who cares?’
Despite many, many attempts to get them to define the word woman, no one responded.
About me personally –‘Appalling way to think. And if you're in the Green party then i'm utterly ashamed!’

There were several attempts to get the GP councillor to remove the petition -she still has not done so and seems to be sympathetic. Last night our area got a boost in signatures. – So some light.

As stated in our initial response, the Green Party respects all our members, and works hard to ensure we promote equality and fairness.

Please address your legal or medical questions with the relevant authorities.’

OP, assuming there wasn't a lot more context to it, I think this was a really offensive response from the Green Party to a letter that detailed some very personal experiences.

Call me crazy but this oppressive push to silence women reminds me of this Dalai Lama quote.

Katherine, I know. It was like a kick in the teeth. Made somehow worse in that the doctor in question was in Caroline Lucas's ward of Brighton Pavilion.

The big problem for me with the "heterosexual mothers with children" comment (apart from it's ignorance) is that these are one of the groups that has the most to lose from self ID.

They are most likely to be abused by a partner and so may want access to a women only shelter.

They may have been sexually abused by men in the past, or know people who have been sexually abused by men, and so will be reluctant to share spaces such as changing rooms with people with a penis.

They need spaces to discuss female biological issues, including but not limited to birth trauma and health problems affecting the female reproductive system. It's really important these issues can be discussed in female only spaces because males often dismiss them, including male HCP.

Their careers are most likely to suffer due to sexism and the patriarchy, so if statistics are changed to include people who transition at 30+ in the group of "women" this will affect them. They may lose out on spaces on projects to help women advance e.g. women only shortlists.

Their children who are gender non-conforming or just don't quite fit in may be targeted by groups like mermaids who want to give them harmful medicine and ultimately sterilize them.

Obviously these issues may affect Bi/Lesbian women as well, and some of these issues also affect women without children. Some of these issues may also affect gay men (and boys). Arguably, heterosexual men without children are the ones with the least stake in self-ID, so if anyone should shut up on this issue it's them.

I know mumsnet is not solely heterosexual women with children, but even if it were, the views of this group are still valid, and heterosexual women with children are still capable of being intelligent and politically aware, and the idea that we should dismiss their views wholesale is sexist and disgusting and has no place in modern politics on any issue- let alone one that may disproportionately affect them.

Even if it were true that we were mostly heterosexual mothers,neven if there was somehow something wrong with being a heterosexual mother, don't they know that the majority of LGBT people have heterosexual mothers? Having a lesbian daughter has certainly prompted me to take this assault on women very seriously.

Lady Lance - that is brilliant - I hope you don't mind but I've used it.

Heterosexual mothers aren't trendy. I'm afraid that's the size of it.
Actually change that to women as a whole.

@MsMcWoodle Of course you are welcome to use it!

Love the irony - apparently we are all 'so much more than our bits', but if you are on Mumsnet you are 100% definitely going to be a heterosexual woman with children!

When tigtog first coined the term, TERF, it was a misnomer. Radical Feminists did not exclude all transgender identified people, only males, and not all the women who excluded transgender identified males were Radical Feminists. But we knew what we meant when she ordered us to submit or git off her blog.
As currently used by trangender advocates TERF is a euphemism for non-believer.
It was created as a pejorative and is used as a pejorative so it seems ridiculous to claim at this late date that it is not a pejorative.

I've seen online spats between TRAs where they are sort of competing as to who can call the other "TERF" first, and thus win.

Quick update to anyone who is still interested in the Green Party...
Responded to the message from the GP in my op -
Hi again.
Just wanted to let you know that I have shared my letter and your response.
The doctor in question was XXXX XXXXXX from Pavilion ward Brighton. Should I take it up with the MP?
This was obviously quite childish of me, given that the MP is Caroline Lucas.
Sent the whole exchange to Caroline Lucas's office, who have said that they will get back to me.
In the meantime the facebook argument with the local party rumbles on. I finally got an answer to 'what is a woman' - apparently it is
'A woman is a self defined person of the feminine gender.'
Also got told to read a book by a Joan Roughgarden, who apparently doesn't believe in Darwin's theories...
I have also been told off for being snippy, which I am, but the hostile attitude and attempts to shut down the debate got the better of me.

LadyLance - yes, it's about ten seconds from not all women are breeders isn't it? And low income mothers have been the single group to most suffer from austerity, as all the systems designed to help and protect them have been decimated - from DV services, tax credits, cuts to legal aid and all the rest of it. Low income women have borne more than three-quarters of the cost of austerity and it's compounded if those women are also mothers, particularly single mothers.

LadyLance The post with your comment got 2 likes, you're doing better than me!

I'd be tempted to email back and ask how they would identify a dead body using their definition of woman

'Id be tempted to email back and ask how they would identify a dead body using their definition of woman

Oh my goodness don't though!

Can you imagine how that would be taken out of context and twisted?

Of course it would be. To deflect the utter nonsense they just spouted

Babies and people unable to speak or who are sadly no lo get with us do not have a gender.

Not to mention the sheer about of women not defined by that definition.

The "Heterosexual mothers with children" criticism is just so predictable, isn't it?
Do the people who come out with that ever stop to think for a moment that even if it was true, wtf is so wrong with being a mother anyway?

The whole "silly little mummies" is very insulting, yet it is an assumption made by so many - not just those involved in the Trans debate. Mothers with opinions are obviously brainless pearl clutchers, because when giving birth our brains fall out with the placenta.

I take it as an indicator that the person making the point is, on some level, a regressive mysogenist no matter how right-on they think they are.

Mumsnet (possibly 100% heterosexual women with children) is not the place to educate yourself.

Shame TAAT are frowned on, that sounds like a good thread title.

What on earth is the 'feminine gender' ? Is there a checklist anywhere that I can tick off? I fear I may not make the cut, so if I don't meet the criteria for the feminine gender what am I?

Do people who say these things really not think it through even a little bit?

Green Party respects all our members

Except heterosexual mothers?

Green Party respects all our (male) members - corrected that for them. Also sniggering like a child.

Just to say MrSMc you have inspired me, I have written to both Baronness and the Green Party to voice my discontent as well (also a green party member at the moment as I have commitments to the local party but I will be resigning after the local elections)

Why not post this on their FB timeline snd ask their views. womansplaceuk.org/footage-of-picket-line-attack/

Wobbles Just posted it. Many thanks, though my hands are still shaking I'm so angry.