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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Man Friday hits the news!

502 replies

NotAWhacktivist · 18/03/2018 00:55

This doesn't seem to have been posted yet. Hats off to this women (she has posted here about her efforts)

Topless swimmer wades into trans row
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/9a8e437c-2a35-11e8-8cd0-05c64066237c

OP posts:
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Fekko · 19/03/2018 16:33

Who is JF?

CapnHaddock · 19/03/2018 17:05

JF = Jane Fae. Transactivist who is on the programme with Amy

Sessil · 19/03/2018 17:06

There is the beginning of a thread here to share reasons when women's only swim sessions / spaces have been used twitter.com/sunfleury/status/975763586369847297

Callmejudith · 19/03/2018 17:09

Our buddy James Kirkland has done a column in tonight's Standard

www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/labour-s-next-civil-war-is-a-battle-over-what-it-means-to-be-a-woman-a3793541.html

Amy I totally salute you, you are incredible

Sessil · 19/03/2018 17:09

(should add its in reply to J'OB)

Waddlelikeapenguin · 19/03/2018 17:17

Brilliant clip Star
You come across as so friendly & reasonable Flowers
The id/fraud as PM was a weird derail & they didn't give you much time but you made your points Smile

niddy · 19/03/2018 17:53

Brilliant work Amy & Hannah! Women's spirit never ceases to amaze me! Respect and support from me too. Time to push back and be heard!

Kikashi · 19/03/2018 23:29

I didn't understand the point JF kept making that changes to the GRA would make it criminal to wake up one day and identify as a woman that day to gain access to womens spaces and if you did that you would go to prison - how?? made no sense to me.

Brave women I salute you - true suffragette spirit.

Datun · 19/03/2018 23:42

Kikashi

Fae is being a twit. Deliberately disingenuous.

They were trying to say that you're not allowed to fraudulently claim to be trans.

Which is meaningless, given the only way anyone ever knows you're trans is because you say so. And you can change your mind!

It's like saying I'll give you a million pounds if your favourite colour is blue. And it's okay if it was green yesterday (and tomorrow).

Jux · 20/03/2018 00:01

Amy, you are amazing. Well done Star

Kikashi · 20/03/2018 07:56

Thanks Datun - I suspected that but neither Piers or Susannah challenged JF on that so I thought I had misunderstood something about the proposed changes to GRA.

Datun · 20/03/2018 08:04

Kikashi

It's a sneaky bit of duplicity. Because people are reluctant to say that some transwomen might be predators. It's too confrontational and feels like you are entering the lions' den.

So they say, it's not about trans people, it's about men who will fake trans to predate.

Which is, of course, if not illegal, then is some kind of 'fraud'.

When the reality is, many men are doing exactly that. And many men are transvestites, not transsexuals.

The dark underbelly of transgenderism, which is driving this, needs to be exposed.

And there's always that knotty problem that men think the only reason a woman doesn't want a man in her space is in case he leaps on her, and brutally rapes her.

Missing by miles that men by their mere presence can discomfort and intimidate a woman.

Because it doesn't happen to them, they don't get it. Not only are you having to explain what will happen, you're having to explain why it's a problem.

LifelongVaginaOwner · 20/03/2018 08:11

I think we can do more to frame this within #metoo. In the sense that women were not allowed to set their own boundaries. Women have been coerced into dropping their guard, ignoring their instincts etc because if they did otherwise they were painted as unreasonable.

This is precisely what is happening with the silencing of all debate on this.

boatyardblues · 20/03/2018 08:40

I want to thank Amy and Hannah for metaphorically raising the volume on this so people are finally listening, building on the fantastic work of WPUK and others to get the debate started. Both have been great at politely asserting the case. I started to wonder if you’d had media training to prepare you, but it also occurred to me that MNFWR threads provide a great grounding. The trans issue gets discussed from lots of different angles, posters get great training in staying on point from the ploppers, NAMLTers and derailers and we get insights from old school transexual transwomen who are finding the TRA agenda problematic. This is not to detract from Amy & Hannah’s recent achievements, but I think a lot of us could hold our own in a debate on this.

TERFragetteCity · 20/03/2018 08:41

What I love about this is the juxtaposition.

Nobody ever thought women would do it.

Everyone expects men to do it.

So two women doing it makes the news.

Whereas men doing it is completely business as usual.

BoreOfWhabylon · 20/03/2018 09:05

BBC Radio 5 live discussing now

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09vznjh

ApplesinmyPocket · 20/03/2018 09:06

What a great clip. Amy, you were fantastic. I'm so proud of you and Hannah for doing this. It must have taken - errr - balls. Flowers

Ereshkigal · 20/03/2018 09:11

So they say, it's not about trans people, it's about men who will fake trans to predate.

Datun is completely right. There is no "fake trans" according to the Stonewall definition. Sex (gender) dysphoria is not required, nor is doing anything except saying that you feel like a woman occasionally, or you feel "non binary". Stonewall are fighting for all these males to have access to women's spaces.

NoSquirrels · 20/03/2018 11:08

Paris Lees recent tweets are very enraging and yet we have common ground - everyone is ignoring “science and experts” apparently.

This from the replies below (not PL, another commenter replying to someone asking them to admit they were born male)

I'm a biological trans woman. To be a gender non-conforming male would be to pretend to be someone I'm not.

They want to colonise the definitions of biology. And change our language. It’s so ... insane.

Freshlylaidterf · 20/03/2018 11:14

just watched the clip. Amy you were fantastic. Other person seemed really nervous - you definitely had the upper hand

CadyHeron · 20/03/2018 11:23

I'm a biological trans woman. To be a gender non-conforming male would be to pretend to be someone I'm not.

They want to colonise the definitions of biology. And change our language. It’s so ... insane

Completely agree, it's maddening. There's no such fucking THING as a biological transwomen, you can be a transwoman of course, but when it comes to being born you're either born a biological woman or a biological man. It is literally trying to erase biology.

Terftastic · 20/03/2018 12:40

I've even seen a transwman on twitter claim to be a 'cis woman' - it's getting beyond stupid now - because they want simultaneously to be us, but also to claim to be oppressed by us.

Vickxy · 20/03/2018 12:49

I didn't understand the point JF kept making that changes to the GRA would make it criminal to wake up one day and identify as a woman that day to gain access to womens spaces and if you did that you would go to prison - how?? made no sense to me.
And if that did indeed happen, where would all the 'gender fluid' people go? Grin Would everyone claiming to be gender fluid be in prison? Surely that is transphobic in itself?!

OlennasWimple · 20/03/2018 13:08

Nobody ever thought women would do it.

Everyone expects men to do it.

So two women doing it makes the news.

Whereas men doing it is completely business as usual.

This is a really good point

MrWriter · 20/03/2018 13:53

Brilliant works girls boys!

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