Is choosing to be a SAHM a feminist decision?

[user1471506568]

Ok so I'm a SAHM and would also strongly identify as a radical feminist although admittedly I still am learning about all of this. I understand that liberal feminism is more about the individual as opposed to the class movement so under that philosophy being a SAHM is an acceptable feminist decision but I'm confused about the rad fem stance.

I can see how from a financial perspective being a SAHM is a bit of a backward step for feminism, but this is such a narrow view and I don't think money is the only measure of worth . In fact it strikes me as an extremely patriarchal measure where the balance will always be tipped to men earning more due to women having children.

I would be really interested in people's views on this. Can I be a radical feminist and a SAHM or am I letting down the class movement?

NB: Please don't take this as negative judgement of any working mothers as I respect everyone's decision to do what's best for them.

That way everyone has an actual choice rather than the illusion of one

"What particularly pisses me off is that payments get reduced if the non resident parent starts living with a person whose own child lives with them full time."

Yep and EVEN if that child's OWN FATHER pays child maintenance to theoretically support that child!! So the NRP basically gets income from the stepchild's dad, and a discount for his own CMS! Makes me rage.

Yes - this is what has happened to my friend and her child. People should be held financially responsible for their own biological children. I am pretty sure my friend's ex isn't spending too much on his step child either, since that child has 2 parents of their own in full time work who are meeting that child's needs but he still gets to cut money to his ex wife. She meanwhile, has to work around school and childcare, thus limiting her options, whole he gets to swan in and play disney dad, buying expensive phones but not school shoes!

I'm an RP in that situation and although I'm fortunate enough to be well off in my own right I find the principle of it completely wrong.

The impact of SAHMs goes beyond the financial impact on the individual woman. It impacts the children growing up associating women with caring roles and wifework and men with earning and free time. Thereby passing on patriarchal notions to theiron sons and daughters.

There is also the impact on women in the workplace. While employers have a pool of "facilitated" men to draw from (in terms of availability to study, travel and put in overtime), women and non facilitated men who place more value on parenting and pulling their weight wrt the family will continue to be 2nd choice for employment and promotion.

But equally, Dionne, the impact of disapproving of the role of SAHM, is that this role is devalued which is also a huge feminist issue. It alienates women in this role from feminism and also minimises any skills they might pick up during their time spent as a SAHP. This devaluing of the role makes it more difficult for women to re-enter the workplace after time spent as a SAHP.

If instead the SAHP role was really valued, seen as a positive, re-entering the work place would not be as difficult. Men would also be more likely to take on this role. Which, in turn, would mean better equality both at home and in the workplace.

@DioneTheDiabolist I largely agree with you but have you RTFT? We're at risk of repeating ourselves

It's not about disapproving or devaluing the role. It's about looking at it from a radical feminist viewpoint as the OP asked. And from that POV, being a SAHM (without the male DP doing a similar amount of SAH parenting years) would not be a feminist decision.

I am a SAHM.

It was in no way a political decision. We think it is best for our children.

I agree that I am facilitating my husband, which is probably at risk of being detrimental to his coworkers who have childcare to juggle and meals to cook etc.

However, I also know many, many of my female friends who WOH also end up being the one to have the day off when a child is ill etc.

Until the gender based roles and expectations in our society change - and yes, I am painfully aware that women like me contribute to those norms - very few women are able to reach their full career potential once DC arrive. Some of this waning of career progression is socialised into women who are too nice and polite to pursue opportunities, but some of us do not help ourselves by taking on the drudge work. Conversely if "wifework" and caring roles were more highly valued perhaps there would be a more equal split between men and women, or at least less pressure on individuals.

I do do a few (what I view as) feminist things like volunteering with various women-focussed groups, and helping male and female friends out with childcare. Although maybe doing that caring for free simply devalues it more on a societal level?! Arghh.

It's not about disapproving or devaluing the role.

Effectively that is what is happening, though. Which is detrimental to women. Not only in alienating them from feminism but crucially, in relation to radical feminism, the devaluing of the SAHP role, is detrimental for women in terms of their status within the workplace. Any woman who has spent any time as a SAHP has her skills and knowledge minimised, through the devaluing of the role of SAHP, which means she is discriminated against in terms of re-entering the workplace and career progression. This stigma attached to being a SAHP means, also, that men will be less likely to take on the role. I cannot see why you would think these points are not relevant with regard to radical feminism.

liltingleaf, the aim of Radical Feminism is the dismantling of the patriarchy in order to create an equal society. Not make women feel better about their choices.

But you don't have to be a radical feminist to be a feminist.

I really dont agree with that lilting
SAHP choose to leave the workplace and Ive never heard anyone say they wouldnt employ someone just because they were a SAHP but because they didnt have the skills for the role.
Surely this is the same for anyone who takes extended time off and the onus on the individual is to maintain and update their skills if they intend to return to the workplace .
If its discrimination against gender then you are on a sticky wicket as regards feminisim if you are implying SAHP is a "female "role

Dionne

Being a SAHP does dismantle the current form of patriarchal capitalism. This is because exploitation of women has evolved. The patriarchy has decided that women, now they have some feminist ideas about having their own money, need to be filling low status caring and service posts. Paid roles which still serve the patriarchy in that they allow a little extra monetary income into the patriarch's family but also take over the domestic role which was previously undertaken by a SAHP. At the same time giving the illusion of feminism. The upside for the patriarchy is that women have to do more in these roles. Look after more children, do more cooking and cleaning.

One of the reasons the role of SAHP is devalued so much in a patriarchal capitalist society is that it is in open opposition to the current model of patriarchal capitalism, where a large number of women work and are exploited in low paid service and care industries for very few benefits. Not entering into these low paid fields also does not support those women in power in the workplace. This is because there is no one left to employ to support the running of their own homes/caring for their own children. Being a SAHP means that women are not earning money or paying taxes or paying others to take care of running their household/caring for their children in order to support the capitalist patriarchal economy. Women, as valued members of their families, are much more likely to have ownership and autonomy over their own work.

It’s disingenuous to talk about SAHPs when almost all are women.

Dozer, I talk about SAHP because it is a role either sex could take on.

It's not about paying others and by that I assume you mean other women. It's about male partners and dads taking on the role of SAHP. That would bring about radical change.

And I don't think me referring to SAHP has a negative effect on the points I was making either.... criticising my use of the term, however, does seem to be attempt to distract discussion away from the points I was making.

Dionne, it is certainly about paying others when the patriarchy is a capitalist one. You cannot separate the current patriarchy from capitalism.

No, it's not liltingleaf. It is about bring a radical change to society. Paying other women to look after your children and do wifework is not radical or even new and will not dismantle the patriarchy. Putting fathers into this role will.

Where did I advocate paying others to do 'wifework' in terms of radical feminism?

My point was that being a SAHP, unpaid, means that the current patriarchal capitalist service and caring industries are not supported. Thus engaging in 'wifework', as a SAHP unpaid, solely to advantage your own family, in one way, serves to dismantle the current patriarchal capitalist system and paying for women within the patriarchal capitalist system serves it.

women to engage in 'wifework'. Typo omission.

Dionne, how do you think that radical change could start? Compulsory paternity leave at a good rate of pay? I still feel men will be lauded for, in many cases, providing mediocre childcare and not taking on the lion's share of jobs like nearly all SAHM / pt women because "looking after DC is a full time job", and the woman won't be "lucky" fpr being allowed to luxuriate at home, she'll be "lucky" for being able to have a career in addition to all the shitwork

Sometimes the radical option just is not feasible at any kind of pace.

Solely advantaging your own family is not Radical Feminism.

Dionne, neither is paying into the patriarchal capitalist caring and service industries which exploit those women who work within them, in order to ensure your family is cared for, radical feminism.

Neither is being exploited, as a woman, within the workplace, radical feminism.

Neither is alienating women who have spent some time as a SAHP away from radical feminism, by devaluing their knowledge and skills, radical feminism.

" talk about SAHP because it is a role either sex could take on."

But they don't, mostly women do.