Transgender question

[Smokenbubbles]

Why is everyone on Mumsnet seemingly obsessed with talking about transgender people? Why are people so bothered. Has there actually been any incidents or are people just being prudish like with gays back in the day? Like who cares how people choose to live their lives male or female gay of straight green or yellow thin or fat. I've never given it much thought but it's constantly coming up on here. Why?

Yep, you've nailed it. It's all prudishness, definitely.

Read two or three threads on the feminism section and then maybe post again when you've researched a little. Start with what your understanding is of the concerns?

You're clearly familiar with MN, and aware of the TG issues, so take some time to read some stuff, rather than asking posters to repeat themselves.

Posters can perhaps post a few links to threads to get you started, but a quick browse through this section will enlighten you faster.

Maybe read a thread or two. You know, rather than starting another one. There have been many exactly like this one.

Why don't you read the threads?

OH YES I AM A SPARTA-PRUDE

Two for one, in Aldi all this week

The only threads I've read on it (the ones which pop up all the time) are about how awful it is that they're getting rights and how everybody thinks they know better than them about how they feel. I will read some threads.

People are 'seemingly obsessed' because it's a very current topic which is becoming more relevant and public. With any big changes to society people (rightly or wrongly) want to discuss it, question it, widen their understanding of it and obviously air their concerns and grievances.

Because it works well for the patriarchy that women are busy arguing about minority rights instead of uniting to attack the system.

If you know it’s constantly coming up on Mumsnet and are interested enough to comment on it, then why don’t you read some of the threads? FFS

If you spent any time on here, you would know already but...
Worries about self identifying laws leading to loss of safe spaces
Some rape cases whereby the rapist identifies as woman/the rape will be reported under a female assault as opposed to male
Other cases of trans women wanting to/competing with females in sport
Don't ask me for sources, just google it
And I am pro trans incidentally but you have to have been on another planet not to have been educated on here yet re the gender critical viewpoint.
The Why? Threads are becoming just as annoying/disingenuous.
HTH

Disingenuous, moi? [innocent face]

So tiresome.

If you have read loads of threads and still don’t get any of it op then I am not sure anyone on here can help you.

I’ll post this and then you can report it to get it deleted, OP. You know exactly why it’s a hot topic, you’re only here to start ripping into the critical thinking women, scream “you’re all nasty transphobes”, refuse to answer the question “Tell me what a woman is, without using the words innate or feelings.” Then you’ll flounce off.

@Smokenbubbles This is a good thread if you really are interested.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?pg=1&order=

Okay, I advance searched you and you are my daughter's age so I will apologize for being curt and give you the benefit of the doubt.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2884501-To-wonder-why-its-so-transphobic-here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3159058-Disgusted-by-all-the-transphobia-here
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2864496-To-be-baffled-by-and-disappointed-with-the-amount-of-transphobia-on-MN

That's just three out of many.
Have not checked them but pretty sure most arguments will be up there.

Penguin's link is far far better.

OP is obviously very clued in and read up on this subject and understands all the nuance. With the clearly laid arguments in the opening post my mind is totally swayed

I advance searched you and you are my daughter's age

OK; doubty benefitty...

Some of us were the women that fought against racism and homophobia in the bygone era. Please be the young person that doesn't assume that older women must be stupid, bigoted and closed-minded. If we fought apartheid, section 28, the criminal justice bill and the poll tax, why are we also fighting this? Please try to think critically.

She's a different generation - my own daughter is fairly clued up but many of her peers aren't. On top of that, with a trans man in the class, ruby rose as a role model and gender fluidity being trendy, it is not surprising that younger women do not see the issues: many are beautifully innocent as to the actual need for safe spaces/reasons behind them.

The assumption in your post as to why this topic has so many women concerned and engaged is false. You misrepresent the concerns of millions of women worldwide.

If you are concerned about women and children safety then it is something to be concerned about. Gay men were never demanding access to women only spaces

If you're unconcerned about women and children's safety, then the topic probably wouldn't be of interest.

And yes there's plenty of info on here and elsewhere about aggressive men and why they would use identifying as a woman to gain access to vulnerable women and children.

I think there are some valid concerns around self Id which need to be discussed, but unfortunately it is becoming a great distraction from fighting against the many other inequalities which are affecting women negatively.

@YTho It's curious why you are angry at women fighting on the frontline of the war against women - this time caused by some more entitled men launching a full scale offensive on another front - the Transgender front.

Here’s the thing, most people on MN are happy for trans people to have rights, to live as they please, to be safe. Where the problem comes in, is that many trans activists want to take women’s safety and rights in order to have their own. Both can exist separately - women would probably have helped fight for them but TRAs want our rights and our safety at our expense and we should just jolly well shut up and be good women and take it.

I haven’t seen any threads on here angry and demanding that I have rights taken away/not given any op?

Do point them out if you can. We’ve been offering cash prizes, but guess what - no winners yet.

What I have seen is intelligent and articulate women, who understand history and just how much little time has actually passed since women had to fight for the same rights and private spaces currently under threat.

What rights do I not already have?

Why do I need to be given rights that will involve taking away rights and safety measures from another marginalised and abused group?

Law does not always equal morally or in this day and age even factually right. The government could make it law that the sky is yellow with sparkles tomorrow. Won’t catch many people rushing to correct their children when they call it blue.

Transwonen are not women. I come with my own completely separate needs and wants. I will however never suffer because if my sex.

I will not die in childbirth or be denied access to abortion. I did not attend school because my family couldn’t afford sanitary protection for me.

I will always retain my male chromosomes, no matter how much my mental disorder makes me change my body. I will always be physically on average much stronger than a woman. It would be extremely unfair for me to take advantage of this by competing against women in certain sports (if you are unaware that this is already happening with horrific consequences and injuries may I suggest you read more)

I may be at risk of rape and assault from the same group that attacks women (men) but with no where near the insidious frequency or social acceptance of it that women and girls have to deal with. Six transwomen killed (in the last few years) compared to over 900 women killed by their male partner/husband. Two a week on average in the UK at the minute.

If you are truly young and naive then I implore you to read all of this section. Don’t be like those idiots so scared of challenging their own virtue that they lose all reading comprehension skin skills and merely look for any offends that could be taken, rather than challenging yourself.

If, however, you are one of those disingenuous fuckwits trying to stifle the genuine concerns of women if all political persuasions may I suggest you give up now.

@TruScum Excellent post as always!