Biological SEX MATTERS. How many mumsnetters say "aye" to this campaign?

[SexMatters]

This document and campaign called 'Sex Matters' is a collaborative effort by amazing and knowledgeable mumsnetters on a couple of threads in FWR.

To move forward with the campaign, the organisations and individuals approached will need to know who is behind it, and the honest truth, is that mumsnetters have spearheaded it.

That does not mean that other campaigners can't get involved or even take greater ownership of it. But it needs a bio in order to introduce it to people and organisations to get started and I need your consent to describe the campaign this way: 'mumsnetter led' (and maybe even some suggestions for writing a bio on this thread).

So, you amazing gender-critical mumsnetters, do you say 'aye'?

Aye . This is brilliantly written!

I have heard an academic also argue that sex categories should be abolished and everyone self-ID. It was a different context, though, to do with the law around marriage for trans people (I did not really follow the argument because we have same sex marriage now).

But many others pointed out that laws were there to protect (female) people, collecting vital statistics (which is what birth sex is) is needed to provide services. It’s the female people who have historically been disadvantaged in marriage and child-reading. So the full collection of vital statistics is necessary to understand social inequalities and address these.

If the argument is that it is necessary to have recognition for the issues faced by trans people, but there is no reason why statistics cannot be collected in the census with an additional column do you identify as trans if that helps provide appropriate services for those identifying as trans. The problem is people are not identifying as trans, they are identifying as the other gender which is a complete makey-up concept when it comes to providing appropriate services and facilities.

*child reading =child-rearing

** but there is no reason = then there is no reason

🙄 sorry

Aye

Its an aye from me

Aye.

Aye

have to walk on eggshells due to those who will claim transphobia at every opportunity as they are so fucking oppressed and mortally offended by anything associated with women and our exclusionary bodily functions.

They are narcissists. They need to make us walk on eggshells to be in control. It's abusive.

Aye

Aye

The reason I think this is such a good document is that we have to change the narrative. It's not true to say we're happy with all "genuine" transpeople accessing female services as many feminists state. By that most of us mean old school transsexuals who have had surgery. But a large number of trans identified males who would be considered "genuine" trans people by policy makers are the likes of Shon Faye and Lily Madigan and Riley J Dennis. Even people like Philip Bunce who is "genderfluid" and quite obviously AGP.

I do get where you’re coming from, SexMatters, but try to take a step back. If you’re coming at this from a less open-minded perspective and you read a list of reasons that people might want to access facilities for the opposite sex that starts with the equivalent of
“1. They’re a big perv”
They might not get any further than that, as a big ‘HATERZ’ sign is flashing in their brain and nothing is going to get through anymore. Maybe just reorder it so dysphoria is at the top?

Aye

I think it is a good document. I would have liked some reference to fighting the bullying, ridicule and homophobia that people who do not conform to sex-based stereotypes are often victims of, which means that they feel unsafe using the facilities of their own sex. (I personally think this is the root of the whole problem)

Also agree with Queen of Thorn's comment just above.

Aye

The thing is though, Queen is that people with gender dysphoria are not the problem.
If anything that should come last on the list because these people wouldn't be there with the sole intention of abusing the system.

It's the sex pervs we should be raising awareness of. In unisex inclusion the sex pervs have open access.

Aye

Maybe just reorder it so dysphoria is at the top?

I agree with this, as I said on the other thread. It still makes it clear that it's a psychological issue, not an automatic valid reason for males to access female spaces.

The thing is though, Queen is that people with gender dysphoria are not the problem.

The problem is that we have no way of knowing who really has "gender dysphoria", and I think it's often confused with other mental health conditions and personality disorders.

Please don't link to lifesitenews as a reference - it's well known as an alt-right / religious anti-trans site, and weakens the objective (not-mentioning-trans) stance of the document.

A more objective reference for the Fallon Fox story is www.cagepotato.com/after-being-tkod-by-fallon-fox-tamikka-brents-says-transgender-fighters-in-mma-just-isnt-fair/
It's a general site for MMA coverage so no agenda other than sport.

everyone again. I have been reading and thinking about your suggestions.

I have updated here with a new version

I feel hesitant to take the page out that lemon suggested, because I believe there is a need for some mythbusting.

The common belief at the moment is that there are all of these dysphoric people 'trapped' in the 'wrong body' and it needs to be pulled back into non faith-based language and reasoning.

I put the gender non-conformity first to lessen the blow about fetishes - but I don't think dysphoria should go first since it is so rare and insignificant as a driving force behind all this.

Is this an improvement?
TIA

Here's some more pie!

These are the stats since the last chart. There was 94 "ayes" 0 "nays" and 1 person was too conflicted about the fetish motivation being focused on to completely endorse

Total Pie!
Out of 525 people 507 said "aye", 9 said "nay" and 9 were conflicted.

aye!

No. Very much so, I know it doesn't make any difference here but hey ho. It think it is awful to exclude people like this. I think the sports-argument is a massive straw man. It is ONE factor, one, in all the talents, abilities and personality traits a person must have to be able to compete at sports. I find it upsetting and to be honest quite heart breaking that the exclusion of trans people has become main stream on MN.

On reflection I think you're right not to remove.

There is a ' I'm more liberal thinking than you' for standing up for trans rights with absolutely no reflection on how it impacts wider female population - particularly on TV. So a majority of the uninformed will have had their social reactions modified to thinking they are a 'bad' person for questioning where we now are.

This isn't saying trans shouldn't have rights it is saying women's rights aren't removed in the process. Trans rights should be separate, not stomping over women.