Biological SEX MATTERS. How many mumsnetters say "aye" to this campaign?

[SexMatters]

This document and campaign called 'Sex Matters' is a collaborative effort by amazing and knowledgeable mumsnetters on a couple of threads in FWR.

To move forward with the campaign, the organisations and individuals approached will need to know who is behind it, and the honest truth, is that mumsnetters have spearheaded it.

That does not mean that other campaigners can't get involved or even take greater ownership of it. But it needs a bio in order to introduce it to people and organisations to get started and I need your consent to describe the campaign this way: 'mumsnetter led' (and maybe even some suggestions for writing a bio on this thread).

So, you amazing gender-critical mumsnetters, do you say 'aye'?

Aye

Aye

Aye!

It is gas lighting.
I think my feelings are that if I read this as a peak transed (repeatedly) MNer, my response is hell yes.
Reading it critically though, while I agree with most of the points made, someone going into it from a point of view of "transwomen are women" will be in denial about the fetish aspect, activism and possible sexual gratification, and the things that we are concerned about, as we see every day on Twitter from various posters, politicians etc.
A document like this is likely to be construed and evidenced as further proof of hate, like the gendertrend school pack was.

I want to just say aye, but with something as important as this, I think if anyone has concerns about it, it needs to be said.

Aye

Aye

And with it, a heap of thank yous to all involved.

Aye

I agree that 'sex segregation' has negative connotations of women being hidden away or pushed to the back.

I do like DonkeySkin's suggestions of single-sex services and spaces and single-sex provision, which I think is clearer than just 'single-sex' on its own.

Several posters have raised the issue of things like hairdressers and book clubs being included alongside changing rooms and refuges. How about separating what most people would see as essential single-sex services which should be kept, rather than simply an option, by rewording the heading on page 3 to:

When is the retention of single-sex services important?.

You could then keep section 1 (sport) and section 2 (facilities, services, accommodation) under this heading, but split section 2 into 2 parts by adding the paragraph about refuges and Rape Crisis (which you have currently put as section 3, part 1).

You could then have another heading:

When is the option of single-sex services important?

and possibly re-jig the remaining points so that the current section 4 (learning, education and development) comes first, with the remainder of section 3 last (simply because I think the general public will find education more important than book clubs or beauticians).

This means that the last sentence of page 2 would probably have to be reworded too, perhaps to something like:

This campaign is for the right to choose and access single-sex services and facilities where needed. People who do not require these single-sex services can therefore choose not to use them.

Agree re single-sex used as above with additional words/focus... Just think you are brilliant to be doing this....

Congrats....Really congrats

Here is a pie chart of the 1st 24 hours of responses to this thread. Of 429 altogether there were 412 'ayes', 9 'nays' and 8 posters felt too conflicted to completely endorse it. Since the first 24 hours there have been another 3 'ayes'.

Aye!

The conflicted people had two concerns - for most it was the word or the idea of 'segregation', for others it was a 'where do you draw the line?' disagreement.

Some people feel that the line for sex-segregation should be drawn for only protection from violence and fair competition in sport, and that embarrassment, discomfort or simple preference for women-only are not justification enough.

From the overwhelming agreement with the principle of the right to choose sex segregation, it would suggest that the majority are in favour of women-only spaces for many reasons, not just around sport and protection from violence.

Thanks Erish! and another!

Aye

Aye!

From the overwhelming agreement with the principle of the right to choose sex segregation, it would suggest that the majority are in favour of women-only spaces for many reasons, not just around sport and protection from violence.

Thanks for posting the roundup of responses and the graph.

I think it's important to note that the majority referred to above is the majority of people who frequent the feminism board on MN and who felt compelled to comment, not the majority of all MNers.

Appreciate that it's very difficult to gauge genuine consensus over the internet, though. and with so few dissenting.voices, I'd agree that you definitely appear to have a strong backing from MNers.

Thanks to all of you have responded with suggestions an updates because of my post Tue 06-Mar-18 04:47:47 I am finding it a bit hard for things to come together in my mind through lack of sleep.

I really appreciate your input and will re-work as well as I can.

Aye

Ha ha and another 3

I think it's important to note that the majority referred to above is the majority of people who frequent the feminism board on MN and who felt compelled to comment, not the majority of all MNers.

Of course, but I have been very pleasantly surprised to see how many have responded - it is amazing to think 429 people in 24 hours!

Aye

Aye

From the overwhelming agreement with the principle of the right to choose sex segregation, it would suggest that the majority are in favour of women-only spaces for many reasons, not just around sport and protection from violence.

Which, for many, is largely as a result of the realisation of just how many men want to make a massive point of invading those spaces.

many men want to make a massive point of invading those spaces

So true. What is the point they are making anyway?

The vegan lesbian restaurant, that was inundated with one star reviews as soon as TRAs got wind of it. The bra service for adolescent girls, same thing. Mitchfest, Vancouver women's library, Salford working women's library, etc, etc.

The list goes on.

It becomes less about supporting existing sex segregation, or same-sex provision, and more about the surefire knowledge that anything female only is an affront to some men.

Even if it's a specialist bra fitting service for adolescent girls.