Terf is a slur

[mariposita]

New video from Magdalen Berns - Trans women are men. we need to be braver!

Goddam love Magdalen! My hero

One of you lovely vipers put me on to Magdalen, I absolutely love her!
I, in turn have introduced her to many friends and my 14 yr old dd is a big fan.
I’m in awe and very proud of her, a real role model for our young women.
💪✊

I just found Penny White after watching a Magdalene Burns video. She is so sweet and so right!

m.youtube.com/watch?v=3E6Ab0K9AaY

Magdalen is just perfect. Calm and considered and logical - not that logic holds much sway in this madness.

Thanks for sharing this. I want to send it to my daughter who calls me a Terf but it would start a row - she (and many other women) are not quite ready yet, but they will be. Hopefully not too late.

I love that one of the comments says "Terf is the new witch"

Is there any way we can have Terf recognised as hate speech?

TERF isn't hate speech - much in the same way that racist or homophobe aren't hate speech.

Terf is hate speech. Have you not read anything on this site that explains why? I can't help those who will not help themselves.

Why would I read echo chamber BS from those who seek to persecute others?

TERF means - trans-exclusive radical feminism. If your feminism is trans-exclusive, it's a legitimate term. If you don't like the associations, perhaps you should try being a little less trans-exclusive?

Try reading the "TERF is a slur" website, Bibi. "TERF" appears coupled to phrases like "die in a fire", "choke on my dick", "should be raped", "gonna fuck me up some..."

It is flung around piece-meal at any woman who dares to suggest that biology matters, that lesbians might not want to have sex with penises, that women might want privacy and dignity, that the whole "transwomen are women" mantra has all the hall-marks of a doctrine of faith espoused by a religious cult.

It fills the same linguistic space as witch, bitch, etc. It is a deeply misogynistic word. If you can't see that, well, maybe the problem is that you yourself are deeply misogynistic.

Why would I read a very biased website sourcing some - but not the majority - of discourse utilising the term? It's a word which was coined by women, in feminist discussions many decades ago. It is not misogynistic - just because you don't like it.

If you want to exclude transwomen from discussions about women, gender identity etc. etc. then you are trans-exclusive. Would you prefer people say 'trans-exclusive' everytime they refer to your views and your opinions on gender identity?

i think I'd prefer gender critical or GC.

Leaving aside the way in which Terf has absolutely become a hate term, it's inaccurate. It's men who are being excluded (regardless of whether they like to tell people they are women) not trans individuals.

To be trans exclusive so-called Terfs would have to be behaving in an exclusionary manner towards trans identified females/transmen, which is not the case.

But gender critical isn't really a clear term and seems pretty euphimistic. Going on other threads, many tran-exclusive feminists agree gender dysphoria is an issue - but they want to preserve spaces for cis-women. That's a bit different to gender critical. Gender critical also sounds like you're skeptical of the science and research surrounding gender dysphoria... A bit like people who are anti-vax or don't believe in global warming... It's a less positive and less descriptive term.

Now cis - that's just plain offensive.

As I believe PPs have explained to you.

I think gender critical is perfectly descriptive. No one denies that gender exists as a social construct (therefore one can feel uneasy about one's place in that social construct).

The 'critical' means 'well, that's a bloody stupid idea - who invented a set of shifting & oppressive stereotypes which loosely attach themselves as expectations to people of a given biological sex? Why would anyone need that?' not 'oh that isn't a thing'...

People who are anti-vax don't deny the existence of vaccines; they just think they are useless &/or harmful.

Okay - global warming deniers then?

Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition and has been for some time.

As above - nobody is disputing that gender dysphoria exists. How could they? It's defined as 'the condition of feeling one's emotional and psychological identity as male or female to be opposite to one's biological sex'. Clearly that is how some people feel!

I think you may be being rather transphobic if you're claiming that gender dysphoria is a universal condition amongst trans people, though. Current thinking among trans activists seems to be that you can absolutely be trans without being in the slightest dysphoric.

@PurpleCrowbar

• quite a few people on threads on this board have indeed questioned the validity of gender dysphoria.
• that's not a view I've heard among the trans people I know.

Gender dysphoria exists. Many trans women do not have gender dysphoria. Transwomen are biological men regardless of dysphoria and how they see their gender. This is a fact.

So why do people insist on saying they're not women. When woman is a gender term as much as anything else?

• I think people have disputed how we should respond to GID/is it a physical or psychological problem/how does it interact with other conditions etc, etc.

If someone 'feels like' they have some sort of innate sense of themselves that directly conflicts with reality, it's not a given that others should affirm their conviction. You probably wouldn't agree with an anorexia sufferer that they were indeed morbidly obese, for example.

I've never seen anyone disputing that this is how some people feel. That's not really a thing anyone can dispute, unless their position is 'Every single person who claims, or has ever claimed, to have gender dysphoria is simply making it up for shits & giggles! It's a conspiracy!'. Which would plainly be improbable.

• We've established at 11.30 that you don't want to see any examples of viewpoints held by self identified trans people that conflict with the viewpoints held by the trans people you know, right?

Fair enough.

But it limits your ability to contribute meaningfully to the discussion (albeit it is pleasingly ironic given your comments on echo chambers).

When woman is a gender term as much as anything else?

No, it's not. 'Feminine' is a gender term.

@ErrolTheDragon both are gender terms - if you loom into the etymology :)

@PurpleCrowbar - If I only wanted to listen to echo chambers, why would I bother reading your comments?

I'm not actually convinced you are reading them, given some of your responses!

Anyway, I think you could definitely do with some wider reading. The link someone posted above might be quite revelatory.

I'm reading and disagreeing. I think the opening statement is pure BS.

At least you've bumped a thread about magdalen berns if nothing else