Terf is a slur

[mariposita]

New video from Magdalen Berns - Trans women are men. we need to be braver!

@BiologyMatters

I only responded to the top three threads already showing on this board... They'd been bumped extensively and showed a consistent toxicity and vitriol that I wanted to combat.

I've been on the pregnancy board and wandered over here....I was appalled by the content. I figured other mumsnetters would likely feel the same and felt it important to highlight that not everyone shares the same views :)

I suspect most people read and flee - as it's pretty clear what a small core of active posters believe.

Stick around, you might learn something. Like why some women believe its important to have sex segregated spaces in some circumstances.

I know why some women think that. I don't think in the most parts their reasons are very good. :) I suspect I've been involved in feminist communities for a similar/ greater time than most of those commenting here. So I've heard and disagreed with most of those arguments before :)

Im just curious as to why and how deeply do you believe transwomen are women? Do you believe it right down to your core? To me, believing that is similar to someone having a belief in a deity. As an atheist its pretty hard for me to wrap my head round it.

I agree with medical and psychological thought that says that transwomen are women. I do not find it takes anything away from me as a cis-woman. And yes, I do believe that to my 'core'.

I'm an atheist. I think it's pretty different to a religious belief :) -- not being able to understand an idea does not diminish it's validity.

I disagree that TERF is a slur. Its factual. You might not like it, it may be used sometimes in more extreme discussions, but it's a fact. You are proud of being TERFs I thought? MN in general does wish to EXCLUDE trans-people from sex-segregated spaces, no?

Are you allowed to call t-women 'men' or 'blokes in dresses', because its factual? You do realise its very offensive to some people right? So why are some people allowed to say factual, though slightly offense things, but others aren't?

I would class myself as somewhat gender-critical, but I don't wish to exclude transwomen or men from sex-segregated places, or from feminism IN GENERAL, and wouldn't dream of misgendering or deadnaming someone. Therefore, I wouldnt identify as a TERF. However, this board is full of them. And that's fine. Believe what you want to believe, but don't be hypocritical.

No, because it's men that gender critical feminists want to exclude. Not transpeople on the basis that they are trans. Just the ones who are men.

Trans identified females wouldn't be excluded from anything. Or don't they count?

Curious to know what medical evidence you allude to that proves that transwomen are women?

It depends on your definition of woman i suppose. The only one i know of is "adult human female".

I agree with medical and psychological thought that says that transwomen are women.

So to be clear, you think trans women are biological women? Is this what you are saying?

Oh, how peculiar. It seems that only trans excluding people are allowed to use the t-word. Even though Mumsnet supposedly bans its use by anyone. #Hypocrisy.

This thread predates the new guidelines, posts aren't being retrospectively deleted. And in any case, discussion of terms isn't banned, it's using them offensively which is subject to moderation.
Relevant part of guidelines:
^
That said, it’s clear that most trans people find the use of pronouns or names that they or others have consciously rejected, to be hurtful and would therefore struggle to engage in a discussion with those who insist on using them. The same is true of the expression ‘Trans-Identified Male’ or ‘TIM’. Likewise, many feminists are affronted by the term ‘cis’ and ‘terf’, so using these terms will make civil debate less likely. As we’ve said, context is everything – but it’s likely that going forward our moderation team will delete these expressions.^

Did you dig this thread up just for an (inaccurate) carp?

I've been put in the Facebook slammer a few times for saying this. It won't stop me from saying it though.
Currently enjoying a 30 day break from the horror of Facebook now.

This time it was defending a high priestess Wicca and very well respected feminist who had been no platformed at a Wicca festival for stating that trans women do not belong in a witch coven. She was called a transphobe and a TERF by members of her own community.

Fancy that. A witch hunt led by witches themselves.

It was heartening at least, to see hundreds of comments in her defence. I only wish I could see if anything has developed since then.

There are many men who feel strongly that self ID is a terrible idea. Are they also terfs? No. Because only a woman can be a TERF. Even if you don't call yourself a feminist, even if you do but don't know what a radical feminist is... only women can be terfs, therefore it is a sexist slur, like bitch or slut or whore is.

When you see slogans like "hang terfs by their necks" and "punch a terf" and terfs being compared to Nazis, then of bloody course it's a slur.

Being called a TERF is a word trans activists invented to silence, shame and no platform ANYONE who thinks gender critically.

Most gender critical people have no problem with trans people of the same sex. I would have no problem with a trans identified female in my space. Gender critical women are penis exclusionary.

Never heard of this amazing woman. I will be watching anything else I can find about her tonight.

I'm proud to be called a Terf.

There's something bizarre about how many women (and possibly men) are now branded TERFs, even though they've never considered themselves Radical Feminists.

Terf is not a slur. Terf was a label you called yourselves. You just want to feel victimised.

We could reclaim the abbreviation with our own version. This was posted on Fair Play for Women Facebook. www.facebook.com/203074990102652/posts/563819644028183/ We could change the swear word to Fools?

www.mumsnet.com/info/netiquette

www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy

Gender Critical is a slur. People on this very website have come at me hard for referring to myself as such. We need to break camp again and find a new term. What about Passageers?

I think Magdalene Berns is very simplistic in her presentation of ideas here. Her apparent 'down to earth' logicality, calm and collected tone masks the fact she has nothing very much to say. Generalising phrases like 'everybody knows transwomen are men' is very presumptious and insidious in its speculation, and very hostile and cruel to those transwomen who have gone through years of pain, abuse, surgery to live in the gender they feel themselves to be. The fact she keeps calling this trans woman 'he' is unecessarily aggressive. What she seems to have omitted here is the fact that 'Terf' (trans exclusionary radical feminist) was a term originally coined as self-definition for lesbian and women's groups who wanted to exclude transowmen. They used it about themselves but now it is (as she says) a slur that has been claimed by some (and I stress some, certainly not all) trans and non-binary people. I dont find it a useful term for anyone to use. Having said this I recently saw it used on a thread about men - to mean trans exclusionary reactionary fetishists'ie men who exclude transmen from all male fetish clubs, so it's becoming a general term really to name bigotry. I don't think she has very much to say here.