This is what Helen from Mermaids writes about MN feminist posters

[AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth]

"If you’re a Mum and on mn that often to have time to engage with ‘feminist’ forums, you’re more likely to be a ‘stay at home mum’. These are bored middle-class women putting their privileged Uni-educated thoughts to oppressing a small, vulnerable, oppressed sector of society"

Nice bit of sexism going on there

twitter.com/mimmymum/status/967731110322036736

I was thinking about this thread today, and getting more exasperated that I really should be.

I spent the with a friend who does a lot of work with teenage girls who have dropped out of education earlier than they should have done. The main reason for them dropping out isn't because they got pregnant (though there are some for whom that is the case), it's because they are the oldest daughter and are therefore expected to look after all the younger siblings while their parents work two / three / four jobs to try to make ends meet. It doesn't matter whether they have older brothers - being the older girl means that all the housework, cooking and child care falls to them.

The reason for my exasperation is twofold: firstly, that the girls involved in my friend's program are there because they are girls. Not because they have self-IDed as girls, but because they are biologicially female, therefore in the extremely sexist and patriarchal society we are living in (not in the UK), certain family jobs are absolutely their role. There are very limited options for them to escape these expectations, even if they are very talented and / or bright.

The second reason is that my friend is the sort of person that Helen appears to hold in contempt: she is a white, middle-class, university educated woman who is not currently in paid employment. However, it is exactly this background that gives her the skills, abilities and time to be able to help girls here who are not so fortunate. My friend is gender critical precisely because of what she has seen happening around the world to girls (before she lived here she spent a number of years in various bits of the Indian sub-continent)

So if you're still reading this, Helen, here's a question for you: what is your skin in this game? Why do you fear the middle class educated mother so much? What are you doing to break down the gender barriers that constrain so many of our children? Are you playing at this because it's easier to prattle on about children being "born in the wrong body" rather than acknowledge the significant damage that is done to girls around the world solely because they are girls? Mermaids is such a first world, privilege ridden organisation

Urgh

It was from the twitter link posted at 5.41...

That is so sad, about playing with dolls and having them taken away.

Yes, I think this may happen with a lo0t of 'transkids'. Their parents want to stick to some ridiculous rigid sex stereotyping and when the child does not comply (which they won't..as they are fucking children and children have a range of interests) then suddenly this kid is trans. because of toy choice and clothing sense. I mean, when children 4 years old are being described as trans, it can't be anything else realistically can it?!

I stopped visiting several popular news websites due to the lack of debate and spreading of dangerous dogma. I really hope these publications are held to account for this one day. A lot more of my online time is now spent on mumsnet. I suspect I'm not alone. Advertisers would be pretty dumb to ignore this.

It’s a clever strategy they’ve employed, if you’re a mum & you use mn it’s likely to be your first introduction to trans people & all you read are the most horrific things, with no preconceptions there’s nothing to challenge their bias

Ha! So if you're a woman who has had a child, you will not have met the same people that others meet. Hilarious opinion of women! Poor, stupid, impressionable women with no critical reasoning... luckily a trans woman has noticed our sad cause.

There have always been troubled children and teenagers, and sadly sometimes they have killed or otherwise harmed themselves. As far as I can make out, a lot of the children now identifying as transgender were already very troubled for other reasons. If they do harm themselves, the TRAs are very quick to say it's because they were prevented from being their true selves, or, if they have transitioned, that they were bullied for it. But there are often a lot of other possible reasons too, which get airbrushed out of the picture.

Some of them have suffered sexual abuse and trying to make sense of it have concluded that it happened because they were a girl (or boy) and if only they were a boy (or girl) it wouldn't have happened and they'd be safe.

Some of them are on the autistic spectrum, have experience of being bullied and struggle to make friends. For someone who is very rule-based I can see how it would be appealing to use gender stereotypes as a kind of rulebook for life, and maybe there's an element of making a fresh start with a change of gender and finally being a bit special and having other people say how wonderful they are.

Others have mental health issues, like so many other young people now. Constant tests and targets at school, constant pressure from social media as they enter their teens, far too much exposure to porn + hormones and normal teenage confusion > depression and anxiety and a desire to find an escape route. In this group, there's always been self-harm. I see transgenderism as another expression of that. Would it be reasonable to see wearing a binder as an alternative to cutting or restrictive eating?

TIMs can assert whatever they like about tech , but without two particular actual women - namely Ada Lovelace and Heddy Lamarr - none of that would work , and the particular TIM who said it , wouldn’t have either computers or WiFi to promulgate his fuckery .

I am sure ASDA are terrified at the prospect of losing like 10 customers. Might make them bust.

It’s a clever strategy they’ve employed, if you’re a mum & you use mn it’s likely to be your first introduction to trans people & all you read are the most horrific things, with no preconceptions there’s nothing to challenge their bias

Also as for this, why on earth do those who support it all not speak up? They could easily lay out their arguments against ours, this should be easily done if we are all just raging transphobes no? Should be easy to show us up as that with your superior logic and facts? No takers? Surprising eh..I wonder why that is

all you read are the most horrific things

Horrific things?

You mean like facts, and evidence? Almost all of which comes directly from TRA lobbyists?

I self harmed as a child, still have the scars now. I actually got to the point where I was cutting seriously, and my father saw it all and got me help. I started doing it as it was suggested by a friend that it could help with the angst I was feeling (normal teenage angst, tbh) as it helped her feel better. Oddly enough it DID make me feel better. But it was definitely a social contagion, there were many of my friends did it because others did. Most was superficial, luckily. Me and some friends went a little bit further though and we could have been categorized as suicidal I guess. There seems to be other forms of self harm and social contagion these days though, forms that could actually damage you for the rest of your life rather than just leave you with a few scars.

Ha! So if you're a woman who has had a child, you will not have met the same people that others meet. Hilarious opinion of women! Poor, stupid, impressionable women with no critical reasoning... luckily a trans woman has noticed our sad cause.

I know, right. I worked for years in the West End before having kids. Trust me I have seen it all but of course, once I grew people inside me and joined Mumsnet I became parochial and in need of exposure to the "real world".

I am sure ASDA are terrified at the prospect of losing like 10 customers. Might make them bust

I've been boycotting ASDA for a few years because Walmart are a bunch of shyster. However, I am well aware that ASDA could not give two fucks about it and I am sure they won't be wetting their pants over this either. I do it (along with boycotting a load of other corporations) for my own peace of mind not because I'm delusional enough to think I can "take down" a massive corp.

Their rent-a-cause vertue signaling allys will be on facebook missions to bring down Asda for, oooh, a week and a half? (They will have nipped in for bog roll, thats okay though so long as theyve "spead awareness" of the cause)

Meanwhile Asdas profits are just fine...

We dont have an Asda nearby.

So MN is a hotbed of radicalised TERFdom then - incredible!!

I need to make some badges for us all.

I was listening to something random on R4 earlier. They were talking about virtual communities. The presenter said something like 'we're all familiar with forums, like Mumsnet, where like minded people meet to discuss things'.

We are fucking mighty. And I'm quite happy to START shopping at ASDA if they tell the TRAs to do one

Like minded? I’ve seem some right Barnies on here!

If it is true that 12 million people use mumsnet that means about 20% or one fifth the population of the UK. Odds are that nearly everyone in the UK knows more than one person who uses mumsnet.
I am not sure demonizing friends and family who use MN is the smartest strategy.

I do it (along with boycotting a load of other corporations) for my own peace of mind not because I'm delusional enough to think I can "take down" a massive corp.

And this is usual, surely. Rather than trying to threaten various companies if they endorse something you do not like. Its a personal thing if you are boycotting. If enough people boycott then it may make a difference and get the company to reconsider their stance on whatever. But I really cannot see transactivists stirring enough people up to boycott ASDA because they advertise on mumsnet, where the posters shock horror promote watchful waiting in kids, rather than pumping them full of hormones and other dangerous treatments, and also believe in biology. Its nuts.

where like minded people meet to discuss things

Heh, I think they are wrong on that. Mumsnet members likeminded, on what. Its full of arguments and on most topics opinions are ridiculously polarized. I think the trans issue is probably around the most universal opinion on here thinking about it. Even the likes of breast V bottle brings out huge arguments with posters on each side of it. Where, trans threads these days consist of most people pretty much agreeing, with the odd 'you bunch of transphobes' then disappearing without arguing their actual POV, so clearly people who have no actual argument besides 'everyone should be nice'

A lot of Helen's anger is self-hatred, given that she herself is "cis", white, university educated and as middle class as could be, with a double-barrel maiden name (a distant cousin of posh boy Piers Morgan in fact), executive father, accountant ex-husband, and trying her hardest not to be a SAHM despite her marketing business not getting any clients except Mermaids. All of her rants about conservative christian zealots are about her family, the rest is pure self-loathing. I feel so sorry for that poor child

Ha! I was going to do a Sainsbury shop tonight but I will do a massive Asda delivery instead.

Very happy to give Asda my white, middle class, uni-educated money.

RTB Didn't want your post to go uncommented

Gendered playing is such bollocks. I don't know many kids who are gendered in toys. What I have noticed is how hard it is for parents of boys who like playing with dolls and wearing sparkles. I saw a little boy at soft play about 10 years ago pushing a pram in a pink top and smiled at him, then his mum immediately started talking about how she had tried to discourage him but he wouldn't play with anything but girls toys. The mum was clearly concerned and the boy was lovely, it broke my heart. Why can't kids just be who they are? Why do we have to box everyone up? And FFS why does them not fitting the box mean surgery/medication is the answer??!@

Really not sure about the radicalisation power of MN... I am ashamed to admit I own 2 toilet brushes and can't make a chicken stretch further than 3 days, and I've been here for yonks.