Who's up for a self-ID day of activism?

[YesItsADebate]

Following on from my swimming thread, I'd like to guage interest to see who would be interested in taking part in a day where we all self-ID as men and take part in various forms of activism.

Some ideas from the other thread:

• a mass swim in the men's pond in Hampstead;
• manspreading on public transport;
• sunbathing/sauntering around in shorts and flip-flops;
• using the men's loos;
• using men's changing rooms;
• applying for membership of men-only golf clubs, gentlemen's clubs, the Freemasons' men's lodges etc.
• going to men-and-toddler play sessions (with bacon butties!);
• mansplaining, interrupting other participants in meetings and generally acting with a chauvinistic sense of superiority.

I'm sure you can come up with more. Vaguely planning for the summer when it's a bit warmer! Anyone up for it?

Disclaimer: while the law on Exposure (formerly indecent exposure) only applies to genitals, exposing breasts in public may amount to a public nuisance if it's done with the intent to shock, upset or annoy. I'll have a look a bit later for better guidance.

Yes! I went to the Ladies Pond for the first time a few months back just before their review of policy. A group of us went there specifically because it was Women only. I'll get my tits out in the men's pond with glee.

Well done, OP. I do think we need to actively plan and co-ordinate rather than everyone individually doing things. I also think we need to make sure it’s nationwide and not just London.

Also, for whoever hasn’t been reading the original swim thread, I think it should NOT be topless. It would seriously undermine credibility.

So...organisation. First thing: is there a way we can all manage to post together privately about this? There is the secret FB group, which I know some of you are part of. We could DM legit others with that group and then start to organise on there?

Perhaps start with maybe two/three coordinators for each region, who can feed into each other so we know it’s all happening at the same time, and then feed down to other helpers/women who just wish to show?

Positively Like the idea of the front of the shirt but not the back. We shouldn’t target individuals

Ok, updates:

• I have created a group on Facebook, here #ManFriday. I'll be it's a closed group and I'll be reviewing anyone who requests to join. Purpose: setting up local events.

• I've started a GoFundMe page to raise £175 to bulk-buy 500 button badges with a #ManFriday logo, to wear on Fridays while participating in #randomactsofmanliness. I believe MN rules mean I can't link it here, but if you go to Go Fund Me UK and type in #ManFriday, you'll find it.

• I've created a logo and a t-shirt proposal. See pics. I'm no graphic designer so if you have suggestions, fire away.

Excellent. How will you try to check that we are safe to join the group?

I'll be searching profiles. If it's locked down, expect a PM. The easiest way to do it would be for me to ask for your MN username but then you'd have to trust me with it

how can dinosaur FB refusenicks keep in touch?

@YesItsADebate
I'm a professional photographer. I've also gone back to uni to earn my paper stripes and I'd LOVE to cover this in an official photographic capacity. Both as a participant and as a documenter.

If you're happy to chat, I'd be happy to DM?

@YesItsADebate I think the swim attire you suggested is perfect. I think that would get the point across far better than going naked. Topless swimming would allow the message to be diluted.

I really want to like this but it needs to be done very carefully, so that SEX is foregrounded and not gender, thereby accidentally cementing gendered stereotypes and playing into the transagenda. My concerns are based on events like ‘walk a mile in her shoes’ where men who ordinarily inhabit the manliest of gender stereotypes decide that what will really help women and children who have experienced male violence is for them to go full womanface, pull on a miniskirt and pink tights with their heels, trowel on the blue eyeshadow and a giant wig, and mince up and down the high street, hoiking their balloon bosoms or perhaps giving their fingers a lick and rubbing their fake nipples to the delight of their equally attired mates. Society at large deems this a Jolly Good Thing.

Gender performance has a horrible habit of backfiring. Particularly in these very marginal days when gender is so close to replacing sex as the primary protected characteristic.
While I have a wee grin at the manspreading and checking out of packages and hurr-hurring a la Beavis and Butthead, I think we need to be absolutely clear that we do NOT stray into errrrrr.... manface?
In theory I understand the desire to draw attention to the cause by performing gender to the point of parody, (and the idea of topless women in the men’s pond is brilliantly subversive and almost too tempting) but it is too subtle for the majority to grasp.
I’m still wrestling with the idea - I think the op’s original intent with donning feminine attire and self-IDing as a man, a la Danielle Muscato (who was taken seriously enough to be housed in a women’s refuge) is much better than deliberate parody.
I really WANT to parody gender stereotypes. Loudly and obnoxiously. But I don’t think it is the route to be taken seriously.

Why am I so conflicted about this? Any idea? I just think about how well it goes down when men do the same thing at ‘Walk a Mile’ - they aren’t doing it to make a political point about how awful it is that women are reduced to stupid stereotypes - they are gleefully enjoying reducing women to stupid stereotypes. To social approval.
I’m concerned that the political point would be lost amongst the hurr-hurring - how can we make sure it’s not?

I'll hold your coats.

I have requested to join, my profile is a very pretty GR bitch....

mamaryllis EXACTLY, and thank you for articulating it so well. I’m struggling with it too, for the same reasons. It has the potential to do a LOT of damage to our cause if done incorrectly. Which is also why I think it should be coordinated and not just a free-for-all of everyone running about doing mad things.

I like your point about feminine attire (but not sexy) too.

It really does run the risk of blowing up if not thought about properly. It’s great that people are keen to do things but it’s easy to get swept away with fun ideas without considering the real implications. This is serious, and I don’t think it should be understated that it could really harm things too.

I think the op’s original intent with donning feminine attire and self-IDing as a man, a la Danielle Muscato (who was taken seriously enough to be housed in a women’s refuge) is much better than deliberate parody.

I agree with you there.
We only need to look like ourselves, declare that we are men and Bob's your Auntie.

I have asked to join. My photo shows me in a navy dress

I think the op’s original intent with donning feminine attire and self-IDing as a man, a la Danielle Muscato (who was taken seriously enough to be housed in a women’s refuge) is much better than deliberate parody.

I agree with you there.
We only need to look like ourselves, declare that we are men and Bob's your Auntie.

Agreed.

For FB refuseniks, I'll try to keep things updated here. Smaller local events might be a bit more under wraps as I can well appreciate that people feel nervous about advertising their whereabouts online.

BTW tfl is very litigious over the use of the 'roundel' tube logo. I reckon they would not like your version. Sorry!

I don’t think you would have to go topless in the men’s pond to make an impact. Just going into it would cause enough of an uproar.

Agreed.

I would join in if it can be made expressly clear that this is an anti-self-id thing, not anti-trans. I worry it might get misinterpreted. I have no issue with trans women who have actually transitioned sharing changing rooms, toilets, prisons and hospital wards - no penis: no problem! But I am very much against self-id because it allows men who are NOT trans to be treated as trans and I think women and trans women need to be protected against the abuse that this would leave us all open to.

I fully agree with feminine attire. It has to be primarily about getting in the other sexes space and looking ludicrous.

Remember the general public are pretty unaware (or aware but not thought it through). So it’s not like they will see that badge and get it.

And actually we need to avoid hate speech or ridicule. I support anyone to wear or be called anything they like (as I dismiss gender as a notion); my argument is a about the loss of sex segregated rights and spaces. Just saying I’m a bloke today doesn’t quite capture that?

Dunno just feel it’s important that any action doesn’t feel like being hateful of lifestyle choices but is about the case against the prioritisation of those choices over other people’s biological rights and needs?

Have requested to join the FB group.
Have recruited DH to accompany me to local leisure centre on #ManFriday.
Am likely to be also able to recruit at least 2 of the DSs.
I won't be trivializing/alienating by behaving in stereotypical 'man' behaviour but I will be identifying as a man - the kind of man my DH and DSs are.
All blokes together just getting on with it.
Hopefully, it'll get the message out there.