I am about to ID as a man

[YesItsADebate]

In 1.5 hours, I will be identifying as a gay man who does not conform with male gender stereotypes. I expect my local leisure facility to comply with the Swim England guidelines and agree that I am entitled to access the men-only swimming sessions, the male showers and toilets and to wear swimming trunks. I also expect them to re-educate any other man who objects to any of the above.

In other words, I have a meeting with the local swimming pool at 10 to see whether or not I’ll be resorting to topless swimming and public nudity tonight in an effort to prove my point that the Swim England guidelines are ridiculous

Wish me luck!

Perhaps we need a third space to resolve this, for the people who are not fussed. But in the meantime, the shy tend to go in the cubicles.

dj

When there are multiple other hours people can swim. Hundreds of jobs people can do. The only reason to pick women's only spaces and times is very much because you are a piss taker.

Except that they can't go in the male spaces because they're a vulnerable group. They're much safer in with us.

Propaganda nonsense. What about gay men? Socially awkward men? Should they be in with the non manly men too?

Fantastic. Good luck, OP.

I'm bisexual. I love looking at women's breasts. I'm allowed in the changing rooms.

I would hope as a female you'd understand how uncomfortable it is to be ogled, especially in a vulnerable situation like a locker room. Many men, the sort who enjoy getting their dick out in front of uncomfortable women for example, don't get that.

However should you feel the need to publicly ogle my naked daughter I'd have no problem knocking you flat. It might be more difficult with a larger man with his dick out.

Can I ask why you would separate locker rooms by personality though? It's just, it doesn't make sense.

Djnoun It's no different to the male P takers who will self ID as woman to gain access to woman only spaces. It's called making a stand.

They? As in trans women? Us? As in women?

Ooh careful djnoun, you've just made a transphobic statement there.

Perhaps we need a third space to resolve this, for the people who are not fussed.

Well yes. That would be the solution.

You have all my support

Bravo OP, well done.
We need to organise a co-ordinated event of self-IDing men across the country. Make an impact.

Also place marking to see the outcome.

You go sister, oops sorry, brother.

I sat in the men's changing room in our local next. DH was faffing about trying on stuff. Due to horrific birth injuries from 30 yrs ago I find standing for long periods painful. There was a stool in the corridor. I sat on it - I got some looks but I had my defiant face on. I identified as a man for those few minutes....

Pisstakers always exist. For this reason, to have fun and mix things up. But I really think this point is better being made when it's genuine. Sets the tone for the next to come. You're always going to get people who break the rules on purpose. I suppose we'd never have developed as a society without rebellion. But a female to male transition person is already vulnerable enough.

And YES a third space is the perfect solution

And they should be in the women's.

I know! Why not a men section and a "not a man" section.

It won't mean anything because anyone can identify as not a man and will completely erase women, but why the fuck not?

I've read tweets by AGP's saying that "women" with dicks can't control their erections in the locker room and women should be polite and ignore. It's just the natural reaction of a lady dick and not their fault they can't hide it like a "Cis woman". Would that bother you djnoun? An erect dick next to your daughter?

in with us - could you not speak for me please? Every woman who will be affected by this has an equal right to an opinion.

It's not the job of women to mother and protect men who don't feel safe in the men's changing rooms. and if the vulnerable men aren't safe changing with other men, how logically are women safe changing with men?

But not this same shit again about gender. What if a woman comes along for whom this argument is necessary and not a bit of whimsy and you've already wound them up about it? They might not necessarily take someone in genuine psychological need seriously with you stirring it up.

Ah. The usual bullshit of how women have to act in ways that will avoid hurting someone else's feelings.

I am so tired of being told how to act, dress, speak and feel so as not to hurt someone's feelings. It's time my feelings were listened to for a change.

So go in a cubicle. What's so great about getting changed in the main area anyway.

There are no cubicles at my local pool. The entire changing area is communal.

So the voyeuristic sex crimes that doubled to tripled in Target changing rooms since self-ID came in were committed by men 'just having fun and mixing things up?' And that's ok with you and something women need to suck up?

But a female to male transition person is already vulnerable enough.

A transexual maybe, but how for example is Danielle Muscato at risk in a men's locker room and why is that my problem?

If males are dangerous why should women take the risk instead of the males themselves?

Do you believe "cis males" are inherently more violent due to their male brains? Nothing to do with rape culture that transwomen grew up part of.

Do you think cis men are therefore identifying with sexual violence?

I couldn't give a shiny shit if gay men wanted to come in the women's changing rooms. They're less likely than I am to ogle someone. And naturally, I look with discretion. But if a woman is mind blowingly hot, I'll sneak a couple of extra looks at her. I might even daydream about her. The same as I would about a man.

came to the conclusion that Masons & Mosques (& other segregated religious venues

The Wailing Wall is Jerusalem would be another example.

What if no cubicle is available Djnoun?

Hey if we were all more sex positive we wouldn't care about our naked pictures ending up on the internet. Whoop free porn!