I am about to ID as a man

[YesItsADebate]

In 1.5 hours, I will be identifying as a gay man who does not conform with male gender stereotypes. I expect my local leisure facility to comply with the Swim England guidelines and agree that I am entitled to access the men-only swimming sessions, the male showers and toilets and to wear swimming trunks. I also expect them to re-educate any other man who objects to any of the above.

In other words, I have a meeting with the local swimming pool at 10 to see whether or not I’ll be resorting to topless swimming and public nudity tonight in an effort to prove my point that the Swim England guidelines are ridiculous

Wish me luck!

I already said, lumping everyone in the world into two categories is not the answer. And arguing and which category is better than the other is reactionary and pointless. It's perfectly easy to make third spaces. They're only walls. It's a question of where we move forward architecturally. Not squabbling over having dicks in your faces. And by suggesting a man would have a tumescent penis waving at me in the shower, you are using the same argument as homophobes. We had this when I was growing up, the old I don't want him in here. I fancy girls in the changing rooms and I look perfectly ordinary. I'm yet to see anyone that special that I started to experience immediate and uncontrollable urges. And this doesn't at all account for the ones who want to date men. Should they not be allowed in the mens because they'll wave their dicks in others faces? No because we decided that was a load of flipping nonsense yonks ago.

Dixie, we know a certain poster is most definitely not representative of the majority of bisexual women. :)

Thank you, DixieFlatline.

looking forward to your update.
Well done OP.

Also looking forward to an update from OP - well done!

But there are just two categories.
Two sexes

Male
Female

For the most part they mix in most spaces reasonably ok.

But at certain times where they are vulnerable , half dressed or needing to be Intimately examined, they should use the space that correlates to their sex.

Sex isn't a box. Sex stops you doing very little.

Gender is the box. Gender is the problem. But no where is segregated by gender. But by sex

And no one is worried about lesbians or gays in changing rooms.

You don't even know if they are gay.

You know if someone's a man

Watching this one.

Except that they can't go in the male spaces because they're a vulnerable group. They're much safer in with us.

Ah, but we're not necessarily safer with them in with us, especially under a self-ID system. Now, explain why you don't think that matters.

It's perfectly easy to make third spaces

Why are you trying to convince us of this? We're all in favour already! The people you need to persuade are TRAs insisting a third space would be exclusionary (obviously it would be exclusionary, that's the point)

Surely the MeToo campaign recently has shown just how many men there are around who get a thrill out of masturbating at a woman on a Tube, or openly ogling breasts etc. Why wouldn't these sorts of men enter a women's changing room?

The problem is DJ, that TrAs don't want a third space, because that would be transphobic.

The homophobic argument is bollocks and you know it, given that it was from MEN about MEN.

Besides, TRAs are massively homophobic, they want lesbians to suck their lady dicks, young girls are being told they are transphobic by having a preference based on biology. Are you ok with that?

Well, I know different bisexual people to you. The ones I know are randy as hell. But we get away with it because we're women. One of the perks of being female is that you can behave inappropriately and no thinks you're anything but charming.

The inappropriate behaviour is always with willing recipients.

I don't know any other type than the ordinary type. People I know who are good and kind-hearted and just trying to find a place in a world they've struggled to feel comfortable in. I know one who bangs on a little too much about what it's like to be a woman, which I admit jars. But I haven't got time to be seriously offended. She's really into women's rights and feminism and sticking up for abortion rights all that, so a little bit of jarring chat slides off me like water off a back.

Ooh, I need to hear about this meeting.

Well done, OP.

Wow you know some pretty strange people! Women who behave inappropriately where I come from are rightly called out on it, probably more so than men.

Sorry you know a disproportionate number of arseholes :(

Ooo marking my place to hear how this went...

Very interested to see how it panned out OP.

I can see where the negative perception some people have of bisexuality comes from. Some people really give other bisexuals a bad name

Someone is trying very hard aren't they Beyond.

I can say that I categorically don't ogle over anyone. I'm not some creepy pervert just cause I like men and women.

Should they not be allowed in the mens because they'll wave their dicks in others faces? No because we decided that was a load of flipping nonsense yonks ago.

Gay men know men are dangerous and have a good reason to keep their dicks to themselves.

Straight men have no such risk in a woman's shower.

And have you bothered to read anything anyone has written about your transphobic suggestion of a third option.

Men might want to see young women's breasts. I am sure that many men would not be happy to see drooping older women's breasts like mine.
Also the idea of women self IDing and going along to the mens and tots sessions where they get free bacon butties is a brilliant idea. Although I would only do it with children too young to understand what you are doing. Wouldn't want to confuse them. But I already hate that men get free bacon butties and women get nothing.

And by suggesting a man would have a tumescent penis waving at me in the shower, you are using the same argument as homophobes.

BULLSHIT.

Only a sexist misogynist would suggest that consent is a non-issue and that women and girls should ignore their risk perceptions to validate the inner identity of a male person.

The insistence that consent is not an issue is a risk factor in itself. The insistence that consent is not an issue is a bloody great red flag.

I. Do. Not. Consent. To. Penis. In. My. Spaces.

Dixie, we know a certain poster is most definitely not representative of the majority of bisexual women

Missed Dixie's post as it was the end of the last page. Dixie, for the record, I'm not convinced a certain poster is actually representative of women at all. No one thinks that bisexual women are out there ogling women.

I don't know any other type than the ordinary type. People I know who are good and kind-hearted and just trying to find a place in a world they've struggled to feel comfortable in

I assume that you're helping them campaign for a third space - have they been abused as truscum and threatened by TRAs yet?