Spectator article: Don't fall for it people

[JenniferJames]

Comrades,

The framing of the self-id debate as 'Corbynistas vs. Mumsnet' is a deliberate tactic by the right wing propaganda machine and done to undermine Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour party and paint it as hopelessly divided. We're not.

It is important to remember that only a Corbyn gov't will lift women out of poverty, build homes, invest in the economy, make tuition fees free and stop invading the Middle East. Jeremy, though he doesn't hold our position, is the only Labour MP who has not only come out and said that women are entitled to a debate and to campaign against self-id, but that we have a right to raise money to see if the Equalities Act 2010 exemptions are being misused by AWS.

Hope everyone is well. Mumsnet you are indeed mighty.

I've voted Labour since I could vote.

I may well NEVER vote Labour again and this self-id supporting ignorant bullshit is 100% the reason why.

Labour will have to have a massive U turn to begin to convince me they are not now a fully fledged misogynistic party.

so THAT went well... :-)

it'll come right, you'll all see. the debate will happen, the party members will reject self-id and we will, together, welcome a glorious future and save the nhs

the flame of ANGER is worthless without the flame of HOPE

xx

The ball is totally in his court. But he has to play it. He can't just ignore it and expect women to shrug and hope.

Datun has nailed it.

I wish I could vote for Labour with Corbyn as leader. But I can't. He has a lot of work to do to regain my trust. I'm horrified and disillusioned by the level of misogyny on the left. He has done nothing to stop it. And has actively made things worse.

The left is divided. And this isn't down to right-leaning journalists making valid points about self ID. There is genuine concern on the right too. It's a cross party issue.

I will spoil my ballot paper in May
Never thought I would be driven to this

I'm struggling to believe that Labour is now this fucked up. First they alienate me first as a 48 per center, and then even more viciously as a 50 per center.

How do you reform that from within?

Are the unions really afraid of Lily Madigan on Twitter? The fucking unions?

Jennifer, I do salute you though for everything you have done and achieved. You're incredibly brave. P.s. avoid Thursday at Westminster.

@DarthArts

It's not MN against JC - it's a lot worse than that.

Yup.

MN didn’t bring me to these threads, wanting to learn what all the (to me) sudden fuss about transwomen was about bought me to MN. I imagine it’s the same for others too? It still seems that the perception of MN is that one day lots of middleclass mothers went from discussing nappies and glitter on cupcakes to being massive TERFs. The Spectator article and Twitter in general seem to fail to grasp that the MN feminist boards are full of women from all social and political backgrounds. MN is not a corner of the internet, it is fully representative of all women from all walks of life.

Cross posted JJ.

But from Corbyn, I want action, not hope of action. He needs to protect women.

Anyway, let's hope you're right! Thank you for everything you have been doing. Brave sister.

I got caught up in all the Corbyn. I was having grave doubts the second time, but voted for him again.

I actually feel deeply ashamed. I think I got absolutely everything wrong. Anyone who manages to combine being useless with being dangerous, add in being bone idle and a puppet for the sort of stuff people were spewing out 30 years ago...it's embarrassing.

I'm struggling to believe that Labour is now this fucked up

yes, it really beggars belief doesn't it?

Corbyn as pm? No thank you

@AskBasil

That's a key point isn't it. All the "ground" expected to be given it at women's expense.

The day I see primogeniture being overturned - and a TIM being the next Duke of XYZ and inheriting the family estate - because a woman decides she's a man (despite taking no steps to be perceived as such, medical or aesthetically) I just might see this as not just an attack on women's rights.

In the meantime, women are expected to give up not just just their present and future, but also their past....

News articles about the "first woman" to attend an all Male club - ahem a long standing member who decided to identify as a women, not exactly the same thing....

First woman to win an Olympic medal for the decathlon - yep bring on Bruce Jenner (as he was at the time of winning).

Crime figures - women's stats for serious sexual crimes rising - ahh because TIF's now count in those numbers....

What next - yay women break the glass ceiling!!! Apart from the number of TIF's who make up a statistically important element of that privileged "demographic".

Sigh......

If only Chairman Mao knew what was being done to the people in his name. If he only knew he would help us...

Women challenged self ID.

Corbyn in response met with the boy-child and went on Marr to support self ID, while not blocking the suspension of women for challenging self ID. Where was his meeting with you or Linda Bellos to discuss this? It didn’t and hasn’t happened. He met with the other side though didn’t he. Repeatedly.

I’ve contributed a few times to your crowd funder as I believe it’s very important. But I also believe that JC, like all politicians, keeps his eye on who his key voters are. He believes it to be the youth and he’s made it apparent that he’s cool throwing women under the bus to keep that vote.

Politicians follow the votes and it’s naive to believe Corbyn is any different. Things will only change if it looks like their stance is an election loser.

I think you are exactly right about that article. Self-id is a massive issue for most of the parties - Tories; Labour and SNP. The right-wing media are framing it as a Corbyn problem when actually the TAs are intimidating most parties to take the same line.
I think your crowd funder was a brilliant idea. I'm not a Labour member but I did donate. The irony is that there could be one for each party challenging their positions on self-id.

|i don't know if I should feel better that inner Labour know about how we feel and might do something to turn things around PDQ, or utter despair that they know how women are feeling and just continue regardless.

Labour SHOULD be winning the next election - the Tories couldn't be more fucked. But without women on board, Labour are nothing.

So many posters before me have said it more eloquently - but I'm another who's politically homeless due to this vile self-ID cultism.

I've voted Labour all my life, but no more. I never knew I had drawn a line in the sand until the Labour Party began to erase it .

I respect and admire you Jen, for your fundraiser.

Please understand it had cross party support. The unifying issue is women's rights. Women who vote for all parties donated, not to support labour but to force a legal challenge about women's rights which would ripple across all parties.

Some of us have been raising consciousness about transgender ideologies and the impact on women's rights for a few years now.

I have no faith that a 'stay, don't leave, persuade harder' approach will work.
It's like turning up to a negotiation, handing over all your concessions and THEN asking nicely for what you want.

I believe the only thing that will motivate a change will be parties - all of them - realising the enormous scale of angry women who genuinely, truly, will put their vote this time to any party that will stand for women on this issue. The reason they don't know the scale is because they've been so effective at silencing and subduing women. You can't hear what you've insisted should be silent. But no matter how silent, we all get to vote and make our true opinions known, and this is one thing we get to do WITHOUT fear of reprisals.

They think we'll still vote for them and they need not make any concessions.

I will not. Many women will not. This is potentially the biggest 'strike' ever and it could change the political landscape.

It isn't within my personal power to make choices that prioritise the NHS or austerity above women's rights, that responsibility lies with the politicians. If JC leaves women politically homeless, it is HE who fails the NHS by holding us to ransom.

Refusing to acknowledge the reality of half of the people but still expecting them to vote for you is astonishing. He has explicitly declared that 33 million women and girls in this country are NOT ENTITLED to distinguish ourselves from males, despite knowing that our very fight for rights is dependent upon us doing this.

I can never vote for any party which plans to extinguish the legal existence of my sex.

It is within HIS power to turn this around and change his priorities.

If Labour gave a fuck about women they might have elected one as leader -
oh wait - they have - thanks to Corbyn

@JenniferJames

My experience is that the debate is NOT happening within the party.

It's being well and truly shouted down.

I am angry but I do have hope.

I'm angry at the leadership and I have hope that the more people leave the party as a result, that their tenure in office will be minimised so that there is still the opportunity to rebuild the party and it's support base beyond it.

Every word of this is true. Let's not forget that there are left, centre and right wing men who also disagree with self ID.

The Spectator article and Twitter in general seem to fail to grasp that the} MN feminist boards are full of women from all social and political backgrounds. MN is not a corner of the internet, it is fully representative of all women from all walks of life.

@SmurfOrTerf
If Labour gave a fuck about women they might have elected one as leader -
oh wait - they have - thanks to Corbyn

So true

He has explicitly declared that 33 million women and girls in this country are NOT ENTITLED to distinguish ourselves from males, despite knowing that our very fight for rights is dependent upon us doing this.

Absolutely. It's breathtakingly arrogant.

I'll not vote Lib Dem again either.

This is a TORY policy, remember, let's not pretend otherwise.

I know that socialism offers the best hope for women, even if we lose the self-id argument.

I came to feminism from socialism... not the other way around. I believe in using class analysis to improve things for all marginalised groups. We cannot pretend to fight for women and ignore that women fall into other oppressions than sex. Due to poverty, war, race, social class, disability, gender non-conforming behaviour.

If you vote for a tory government which sells arms to a murderous Saudi regime, deliberately starving Yemeni families. A gov't which supports apartheid Israel. Which sells arms to IDF soldiers who shoot teenage girls at the checkpoints on the way to school. This is your choice to make. But don't pretend to care about women. If you care about women, you care about ALL women.

Think on. And don't mention Blair.. he was a tory, too.