Labour lose 3 points - ALL women leaving the party

[goodyzoe]

"The 3-point fall in the Labour share [in You Gov poll] is entirely explained by a 6-point fall among women (from 46% to 40%)"

CON 43 (+1)
LAB 39 (-3)
LD 8 (+2)

@jenniferjames says "Oh fucking hell. I broke the Labour party. :-( "

I've got very mixed feelings. On the one hand - go everyone! They'll have to take notice - surely?

But - Jesus Christ let's not let the Tories have another term.

But - we have to stick up for ourselves don't we.

Starting to think the people who say the rapid rise in TRA ideology is being fuelled by those who stand to benefit from a divided left might have a point.

www.twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/961537001689370624

What Labour does not seem to grasp is that a strong women's rights position, while all other parties advocating stripping women's right in favor of males who identify as women, would prevent women and men of good conscience being able to vote for any other party.

Apologies if this has been posted already
The Times: "May can save herself by attracting the female voters Corbyn is driving away"- www.thetimes.co.uk/article/8137fcd6-0e71-11e8-b553-b6f31437c43b

The last bit of the article shows people are taking notice

"It’s only one poll but Westminster has been shaken by the latest Times/YouGov survey giving the Tories a four-point lead over Labour, 43% to 39%. What’s changed is a six-point drop in women’s support for Labour. If this is sustained, Jeremy Corbyn has little chance of becoming prime minister.

Corbyn’s unique selling point was seeming to be twinkly and benign. But the activities of his supporters have turned malignly against women. The shadow chancellor John McDonnell joked that Esther McVey should be lynched. Labour MPs including Stella Creasy and Luciana Berger have been subjected to threats and vilification from their own side.

Labour’s most senior woman in local government, Claire Kober, has been driven to quit by gloating Momentum activists. Meanwhile their championing of transgender rights has resulted in condemnation of such feminist icons as Linda Bellos and Germaine Greer.

The pollster Peter Kellner has speculated bravely that the sexes’ different political attitudes may be baked into human DNA by history: “Hunter/gatherers are risk-takers — have to be — home-makers are risk-avoiders — have to be”. If so, this may explain why the sexes have gone in different directions at elections.

There was surprise that so many of the first women voters favoured the Tories. Since Tony Blair they have mostly been on Labour’s side and were essential to Labour’s landslide victories. If May can pull back women voters in significant numbers while the Corbynistas drive them away, the dark acts of the men in the back rooms of both parties won’t matter much."

Thanks for sharing the article, that all makes sense. The bewilderness is right. Although given the above article I would guess those in May's party - which has already acknowledged there are some issues with GRA reform that need looked at, including sex based rights - will have realised this too.

It's ripe for the taking. If May came out tomorrow morning and told us she most definitely would be throwing self ID into the Westminster shredder she could call an Election at the same time. I think she'd have the biggest landslide in History.

Trouble is that the Tories were the original proposers of stripping women of their rights through gender identification. Now they are caught between a rock and a hard place and are holding their tongue for fear of what is happening to Labour.

Well they have until the 2nd May to come up with a plan as I am voting on 3rd May. (At the moment it will be a spoilt ballot paper)

Looking forward to Lily et al hurling abuse at us on Question Time.

The hunter gatherer is nonsense. The first women mostly voted Tory because they had to be over 30 and own property. They were wealthy women. I'm sure that as more to do with it than some pseudo science.

I've left labour and won't be voting for them. Not sure I can bring myself to vote Tory though.

@endofthelinefinally at Mon 12-Feb-18 22:05:56
"I wish all the women leaving would get together and set up a new party dedicated to common sense.
I would join it"

So would I. Did you see this... earlierin thread....

@Pythagonal "Has anyone else heard about this new political party? An old school friend posted on FB about them, and another old friend has applied to be a candidate for them:

renewbritain.org

I sent an email asking for their position on the proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act."

I found a few bits on line, they want to oppose Brexit, I think that could make them popular.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renew_Britain

Maybe if more of us email and ask what their stance is on self Id then they will actually consider it more seriously.

Sorry I am catching up here slowly.

@Destinysdaughter and @LangCleg

Just reading inspiring stuff from Bea Jaspert and Kristine Harrison. I've not heard of her before but she's making massive sense.

Kristina is tweeting on Bea's (Page, thread, what do you call it?). Kristina is a trans woman and saying some excellent things about history judging those who undermine women's rights. She also wants to fight against transphobia and wants equality but from a good place. It all sounds really great and is a breath of fresh air after so much guff! I don't want to be against trans people at all. I want to support them. But I don't want to be forced to lie and say I believe they are the sex they say they are when I know you cannot change biological sex.

Rather than just spoiling ballot papers should those planning to do so not write to their party, which ever it is, to say this is what they will do if self id comes in? Or if there is no robust exploration of this or whatever wording is useful?

@AskBasil I got a little chill reading your rant. In a good way!

"Here's the thing.

I don't want transexual male women on all women's shortlists either.

They should have trans shortlists. Any political space taken by transexuals, must be taken from men, not from women."

Like you say, me too, "5 years ago, I would have automatically accepted that someone who has had an op, should be treated at all times as a woman and I would have suppressed my knowledge that they are not and it's just kindness, not truth, to pretend they are. But now - no, I will not submit to this latest form of male supremacist ideology and I will not vote for any party which tells me I must, even at the cost of the NHS, schools, the welfare state. Because if we women are forced to comply with this latest attack on our rights, all those things will be turned against us anyway. We have got to recognise how serious this threat is and show all those politicos how seriously we take it."

Sorry but it was so good I had to repeat it.

I just felt you are touching on something that reminds me of the fight 100 years ago, when women risked everything to get the bloody vote.

Very moving stuff, Basil. And your post at Tue 13-Feb-18 05:45:12. Very clear, and I really agree with you.

Fab tweet thread from a young gay woman:

twitter.com/antisjwprogay/status/963596666778607617?ref_src=twcamp%5Ecopy%7Ctwsrc%5Eandroid%7Ctwgr%5Ecopy%7Ctwcon%5E7090%7Ctwterm%5E1

"10/ More and more young voters are opening their eyes to this, for the very reason you think we vote labour. We ARE progressive, we ARE open-minded, we ARE accepting. We AREN’T homophobic. We DON’T blindly follow dogma. We DO accept gender noncomforming people."

Such a fab tweet. I’m not in twitter but I hope it gets lots more retweets, it deserves to be seen by someone at the Labour Party.

I’ll also admit I didn’t know what “Cotton ceiling” meant. I’m utterly shocked and disgusted. I wonder again if Corbyn et al, know the meaning of this phrase?

I want to see someone asking him what he thinks about it!

Posters here are so much better at writing and articulating the arguments than I am.
If posters here could draft something concise I would happily send it to my MP.
I am getting more anxious and enraged by this every day, but many women/people are completely unaware.

Maybe a #Labourlosingyouth hashtag is needed to drive the point home.

Incidentally, if representatives of other partiess are reading feeling smug, don’t be. None of you are any more credible.

Out of interest, is there a minimum % threshold of the popular vote needed for a party to form the government?

@YTho "I'm saddened that anyone would consider sacrificing NHS, education etc over this issue. Even with self Id, if it was pushed through, I believe those things would still help women and girls."

We should not have to sacrifice the NHS to have the right to not be forced to accept self-Id. So very many young women are suffering now with body dysphoria, wanting to bind their breasts or have them removed. Somehow someone has to fight back against all this madness. It doesn't just affect middle aged men. Ot's young girls as well. We need to celebrate Gender non-conforming.

@TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole I really hope you will get your PIP sorted out and I admire your firm stance on this issue. Your daughter is lucky to have a mum who wants to advice for her.

@BarrackerBarmer excellent post equating the new ideology of trans with a religion, it is all based on what you believe. I am a Christian, I have a religion but I don't expect others to agree with it or believe it, or be sanctioned for not believing in it!

Just found out what a sea lion is! Thank you urban dictionary!

wondermark.com/1k62/

But I will say that others can read too and even sea lions have their uses when lurkers read the well reasoned answers of you terrific women!

@OlennasWimple "Don't spoil your ballot - no one reads it - no one publishes what you write on it - no message is transmitted. They just count up the spoiled papers and that's it

This isn't true.

You can choose to publicize your spoilt ballot paper like these Tweeters did in 2012"

metro.co.uk/2017/06/08/what-is-a-spoilt-ballot-paper-how-best-to-spoil-your-vote-6693656/

I clicked on the link and the first picture I saw a ballot paper with a penis drawn on it. How very apt!

the thing is, like the last election, there are an awful lot of women that usually vote labour that will not be able to bring themselves to vote for the tories - I believe I was one of the few that in the end did vote for the tories at the last election because of Corbyn's policies and tactics, but many of my family and DH's who are sickened by Corbyn and momentum still voted labour due to the idea that maybe he'd become more moderate if he got in and they were supporting their local labour people.

I can't see Corbyn being moderated by the moderates he's got left - absolutely NO EVIDENCE of this happening - can't see how he'll be more likely to listen if he actually gets in.

that's why labour isn't listening to its women (or any other centrists) because they don't really believe they'll lose our support when it comes to the crunch.

Just going back to pollster Peter Kellner's "brave" speculation: Hunter-gatherers vs Home-makers, wut?

Hunter-gatherers were men and women. Those are two completely different human cultures he's describing there. Nomadic vs settled.

As you were...

Reality you got there before me!

And just a quick tangent, in some hunter/gatherer communities, that have been studied by anthropologists, the calorific value of the food gathered by women far outweighs that of the meat brought in by male groups. That's largely environment dependent and hunting and meat brought in by men, may have important ritual or social significance and not just be about food. (Am tempted to say. because.men. but I won't).

I’m in a labour swing seat. Won’t be voting for them again wrt self-ID. No one who has treated me badly because I’m a woman gave a shit about what I felt inside about myself.

I'm also in a marginal seat, has swung between Lab and Con for the last few elections. I don't fancy Labour's chances here if women withdraw their support.

This continues to be my question and I would like it if leadership would answer it would answer it.
Can you mandate belief?
Can you codify into law the idea that some people can mind over matter themselves out of material reality and into the opposite sex, and must be treated accordingly?
It is like transubstantiation. A belief that no one actually believes.
Will you allow people to drug and mutilate children based on this belief that no one believes?

The labour party political broadcasts are very clever and ONLY mention the NHS and Tory cuts.
Not even a hint or whisper about the whole trans issue.
Most of the general public are unaware or have no view.