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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

So DD's organ donor card just arrived...

255 replies

Battleax · 10/02/2018 14:22

...and she waved it at me, so I said "Right you're supposed to have a chat about your wishes with your family." She, continuing to waggle it, says "This is me telling you about my wishes". So I said "Okay, but have you thought about your womb and the trans thing?"

Turns out she doesn't want a man using her womb after her death.

So that's fine, but it made me think; should we all be stipulating this in writing to the organ donor organisation?

OP posts:
RavenWings · 10/02/2018 15:25

I think if you're at the point of havinh a womb transplant (if it ever happens) then you're clearly pretty serious about wanting to be or live as a woman. I wouldn't mind my womb going to someone like that. I imagine it's incredibly painful to live in what you feel is the wrong body

Absolutely. I don't support people being able to self identify and then use women's facilities. But I'm happy enough that the amount of work needed to be at the point of womb transplants would weed out the chancers and abusers.

The absolutely tiny chance of my womb going to an mtf person doesn't keep me awake at night. I don't see it being feasible and it seems a petty reason to not donate organs.

Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 15:27

feel sorry for all the genuine transwomen who really are just people who were unfortunate enough to be born in a body they dont feel is right. I understand that some men are using this to their advantage and that is frankly disgraceful but i do honestly believe some people genuinely do feel like this and simply just want to be the person they feel they are.

Well of course they do. I genuinely feel able bodied, but I'm not. I think we all need to me encouraged to make the best of things, do what's possible, not hanker too much after the impossible and generally all keep our feet on the ground.

It isn't the majority of transpeople who are pushing the extreme trans agenda. The majority just want to live in safety and get on with things.

OP posts:
YogaDrone · 10/02/2018 15:27

I have carried the "and any other parts of my body" card for 20 years.

Those crying transphobia appear to be overlooking that fact that a womb is of no use to a male. It would simply be wasting a viable organ. The womb should go to a female who might actually be able to put it to the use it is intended. That's science, not bigotry.

But, as we know, wombs are not able to be transplanted at the moment, so the debate is a bit pointless.

stoneagefertilitydoll · 10/02/2018 15:28

I think we're all allowed to think about the moral implications of medical research, and in my opinion, the risks of womb transplants into women, let alone men, are too high for me to feel comfortable with the research happening.

This is experimentation on fetuses and babies, and unless the human race is dying out, it's not a life-threatening situation for the would-be womb recipient, so I couldn't justify risking the potential life they intend to grow in it by supporting it.

Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 15:29

But, as we know, wombs are not able to be transplanted at the moment, so the debate is a bit pointless.

Maybe (potentially) slightly less theoretical to young women in their teens, as DD is?

OP posts:
Enidthecat · 10/02/2018 15:30

battleax that's not comparable is It?

It's not impossible to live as the opposite gender though is It? It maybe impossible to transplant a womb, though.

RavenWings · 10/02/2018 15:30

Surely if it does happen, DD can rip up her card and get a new one. I don't see the need to fuss over a completely hypothetical situation.

Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 15:31

It's not impossible to live as the opposite gender though is It? It maybe impossible to transplant a womb, though.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Live however you like. That's possible. Most transpeople are quietly doing just that.

OP posts:
Enidthecat · 10/02/2018 15:32

Right.... so what's the issue? The minority? Who's chances of getting their hands on your dds womb are probably worse than my chance of winning the euromillions.

Lovesagin · 10/02/2018 15:34

You know, not too long ago a man couldn't just say they were a woman. Now this is literally all they have to do.

Now Children are given dangerous hormones and treatments.

15 years ago this would have been an outrage.

It's not too much of a stretch surely to think in the not too distant future it will be extremely easy for a TIM to get a womb transplant. After all, if all they have to do is identify as a woman to be a woman, and request a womb transplant, and are denied, that would be discrimination. Which wont be allowed.

Posters who are saying it won't be that easy are therefore being transphobic

Welcome to the world that TRAs and their supporters have created.

YogaDrone · 10/02/2018 15:34

Sorry OP I didn't mean to sound so brash. I guess my thinking was more along the lines of - "I'll deal with that [with regard to my own donor status] when it happens".

If womb transplantation is in the near-mid future then I hope it gives infertile woman the chance to bear children.

Enidthecat · 10/02/2018 15:36

15 years ago this would have been an outrage

But remember, before that being gay was an outrage. Multi racial relationships were an outrage. Sex before marriage was an outrage and god forbid having children outside wedlock.

Because things were once outrageous doesn't mean they're wrong.

Naughtysausage · 10/02/2018 15:36

Live and let live.
If I have no use for it, and it's make someone else's life worthwhile, then why not!
Not every trans-woman hates you. And life should be too short for you to hate all of them.
Enough of this.

mustbemad17 · 10/02/2018 15:36

It's difficult enough for transgenders to get reasignment surgery on the NHS currently, so surely until that 'barrier' is dropped - and of course womb transplants become an actual thing - then the liklihood of a transgender person getting a womb is like zilch?

Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 15:37

Right.... so what's the issue? The minority? Who's chances of getting their hands on your dds womb are probably worse than my chance of winning the euromillions.

Well,

  1. It's her womb and her own opinions are quite strong. As are mine about mine.

  2. All organ donor scenarios are statistically remote, we should still engage with them.

  3. All ethical dilemmas start off theoretical and some are very niche. That's not a reason to stop thinking.

  4. The lunatic fringe TRAs (as distinct from the fairly mainstream trans majority) need to be challenged in some of the madder things they're pushing for.

OP posts:
StatelessPrincess · 10/02/2018 15:37

I think if womb transplants for men become possible they'll buy them from developing countries, leading on from the currant exploitation of poor women as surrogates. I hope it never becomes possible.

Lovesagin · 10/02/2018 15:38

None of those things are dangerously altering a minors body though,so not really a good comparison.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 10/02/2018 15:40

YogaDrone, I understand your point and I don't disagree with it. That's for now though, isn't it? Science and technology develops and in years to come it may be possible.

I think much of this is pie in the sky anyway as some women unfortunately can't support pregnancies, at various stages, and they were born with the necessary organs for carry and bearing children. IVF isn't always successful either. It seems very much down to luck and genetics.

I personally think that developments will be made that make pregnancy more certain in future and with that, I'd want to make it possible for women who might need a womb to be able to have one, rather than make it impossible for them by preventing a transwoman (who has had the surgery to become a woman) from having one.

I'm certainly no expert on this. For now, women's safe space is really pressing for me and this just seems to be a distraction like jangling keys in front of somebody's face, hoping that the immediate point will be obscured.

Enidthecat · 10/02/2018 15:41

I assume it's not a coincidence that her opinions are the same as yours.

"Regular" organ donations are not nearly statistically as remote as this. I imagine a lot more people require lungs and livers than trans people do wombs.

Yes all ethical dilemmas should be discussed of course.

Why do they need to be challenged - because you don't think it's right? Why don't you think it's right?

Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 15:43

Not every trans-woman hates you.

Of course they don't Confused One has just very kindly devoted a couple of hours to rescuing my knitting project gone wrong. I'll return the favour somehow. You need to separate policy and people in your mind. You also need to separate the silent majority from the loony TRAs.

And life should be too short for you to hate all of them.

You've decided for me that I hate all trans people on the basis that I don't want to (potentially) donate my reproductive organs to XY people? Are you for real?

Enough of this.

Your soggy brained thinking? Couldn't agree more.

OP posts:
January87 · 10/02/2018 15:48

I assumed organ transplants only happen in life or death situations? I didn't think they'd be taking the wombs of dead people and transplanting them into anybody, male or female because having a womb is not a life or death situation, one can live without a womb, just like one can live without an appendix.

Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 15:48

I assume it's not a coincidence that her opinions are the same as yours.

That's a genuinely interesting point.

I had to keep very quiet for 18-24 months after I hit peak trans because her view was then diametrically opposed. So I tip toes around it. Then she hit peak trans.
I don't know what influence I might have obliquely had because I was genuinely trying to shut up. But this is quite an activism-heavy household and a very feminist household in other ways.

We've talked a lot more recently, a lot of it centring around her drag queen fanaticism. So she's clearly capable of subtle and sophisticated thinking to be both a drag enthusiast and broadly gender critical. We don't agree on everything by a long chalk (aspects of this or generally).

I genuinely don't know.

OP posts:
rizlett · 10/02/2018 15:49

So you'd be fine op with your heart going to a trans person either male or female?

Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 15:49

Of course.

OP posts:
lucylouuu · 10/02/2018 15:50

get a grip. I'd rather my womb go to an open minded trans person to raise a child in a non-bigoted way than someone so petty and narrow minded that they would actually take their reproductive organs off their donation list incase it went to a trans person when they were dead!! absolute madness