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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

So DD's organ donor card just arrived...

255 replies

Battleax · 10/02/2018 14:22

...and she waved it at me, so I said "Right you're supposed to have a chat about your wishes with your family." She, continuing to waggle it, says "This is me telling you about my wishes". So I said "Okay, but have you thought about your womb and the trans thing?"

Turns out she doesn't want a man using her womb after her death.

So that's fine, but it made me think; should we all be stipulating this in writing to the organ donor organisation?

OP posts:
LangCleg · 10/02/2018 16:15

But you won't donate them because you don't want them to go to a transwoman. It's still prejudice.

No, it's not. It's a commitment to medical ethics.

This is something transplantation and IVF services have to take very seriously as there is comprehensive legislation covering them. If it ever becomes possible to gestate a child in the hostile environment of a man's body, womb transplant or no womb transplant, the legislation would have to be changed and would be centred on the rights of the potential child and not the validation/desires of the man who wanted to give birth.

southboundagain · 10/02/2018 16:15

'It's transphobic and hateful to have an ethical objection to attempting to transplant uteruses into male bodied people?"

It's a stupid strawman argument. No-one's actually doing it, and people are using it as signalling for their transphobia.

mustbemad17 · 10/02/2018 16:16

I've only ever heard peak trans on MN but i have never taken it to mean being transphobic. I always took it as realising that there are a group of transgender folk hijacking the whole issue. I most certainly would never use it if I thought it offensive to the majority of transgender men & women who wanted to live a life without discrimination

Lovesagin · 10/02/2018 16:17

I agree with the ww2 thing definitely, some TIMs hate and fear women so much they are trying to basically erase us by trying to make people believe their 'fact'.

It is awful I agree.

Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 16:17

But you won't donate them because you don't want them to go to a transwoman. It's still prejudice.

Of course that's not "prejudice".
It's ethics and logic. It would be criminal if £millions were wasted on that "dream".

OP posts:
CanIBuffalo · 10/02/2018 16:19

I peak transed a long time ago regarding men with penises who have no intention of having reassignment surgery.
However, a biological male who had had or who was having reassignment surgery would have been welcome to have my womb. It's a moot point for me now though.

InToMyHeart · 10/02/2018 16:19

I'm saying "I won't donate my reproductive organs at all".

No, you're saying that you won't donate your reproductive organs on the off chance that they go to a trans person!

lucylouuu · 10/02/2018 16:20

" It’s about being deeply disturbed by the views and actions of certain members of the trans activist community "

i'm deeply disturbed by the views and actions of certain members of a lot of communities, doesn't mean i wouldn't donate organs incase it went to someone in that same community. are there " peak.... " terms for other communities?

Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 16:21

I'm also saying any trans person is welcome to my heart, lungs, liver, cornea etc.

As is anyone to any non-reproductive organ or tissue of mine.

OP posts:
UAEMum · 10/02/2018 16:22

What is next? Can people specify the race of a potential recipient. Either you want to help people by donation or you dont, in my opinion.

AssassinatedBeauty · 10/02/2018 16:22

I'm not going to be refusing to donate organs any time soon, as I'm confident this will be an impossibility for a long time yet. I agree that it's not necessary to be worried about this now, to the point of refusing to donate entirely.

I do think it's unethical to pursue the idea of implanting a uterus into a male bodied person. I can't see how you could argue that it is ethical and beneficial to attempt to do this.

Lovesagin · 10/02/2018 16:23

Imvery I think it's more 'out there' because more people, finally, are questioning the whole "if I say I am a woman then I am" as they realise this isn't just about someone's feelings. Self identification affects us all in terms of health services, statistics, safety, research......not to mention being transphobic itself by essentially wiping out trans people altogether.

Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 16:24

" It’s about being deeply disturbed by the views and actions of certain members of the trans activist community "

i'm deeply disturbed by the views and actions of certain members of a lot of communities, doesn't mean i wouldn't donate organs incase it went to someone in that same community. are there " peak.... " terms for other communities?

I think she was saying peak trans was about being disturbed by some TRA extremism gone mainstream.

She WASNT saying you should withhold organ donation from whole groups of people because their views and actions disturb you. That would be prejudice.

OP posts:
Enidthecat · 10/02/2018 16:24

Why would the rights of the child be any different to any other child?

And how far do medical ethics go? Is it unethical to have gender reassignment surgery or for a transwoman to have breast implants?

I dont expect this will ever happen mainly because it's probably not biologically viable but why is it unethical?

Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 16:25

What is next? Can people specify the race of a potential recipient. Either you want to help people by donation or you dont, in my opinion.

RTFT.

OP posts:
Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 16:27

I do think it's unethical to pursue the idea of implanting a uterus into a male bodied person. I can't see how you could argue that it is ethical and beneficial to attempt to do this.

Exactly.

It would be akin to a risky, expensive vanity project. It should fail an ethics board because of the risk to the foetus but in this brewing climate I'm not so confident.

OP posts:
Eminybob · 10/02/2018 16:28

*" It’s about being deeply disturbed by the views and actions of certain members of the trans activist community "

i'm deeply disturbed by the views and actions of certain members of a lot of communities, doesn't mean i wouldn't donate organs incase it went to someone in that same community. are there " peak.... " terms for other communities?*

I was just explaining peak trans to the poster who asked what it was.
I don’t agree with the OP on the donation issue - see my first post on this thread.

reallybadidea · 10/02/2018 16:28

I work in organ transplantation. Just to clarify - the legal situation in England currently is that regardless of what is on the organ donor register, your next of kin has the final say. It is fairly common for families to say yes to some organs and no to others. Families do sometimes say no to donating the liver in case it goes to an alcoholic - that is up to them.

When gaining consent for organ donation, families would be encouraged to follow what their loved one would have wanted. You don't even need to actually be on the register to donate (although it makes it easier). This is why it is so important to have these conversations in advance! Putting stuff in your will is almost certainly pointless as these are not normally retrieved until after death. Reproductive organs are not currently retrieved in the UK and I would imagine that the vast majority of people would decline if they were.

BarrackerBarmer · 10/02/2018 16:29

Bear in mind that if England moves to a 'presumed consent' organ donation system, as is proposed, it won't be a case of "I choose not to donate my uterus" it will be a case of, your womb is ours and you never stipulated otherwise.

Eminybob · 10/02/2018 16:29

bold fail Hmm

lucylouuu · 10/02/2018 16:29

I might not donate my lungs anymore incase they go to someone of a religion where someone in that religion has done things i don't agree with!

ButchyRestingFace · 10/02/2018 16:30

I'll worry about this when womb transplants actually become a thing.

lucylouuu · 10/02/2018 16:30

apologies eminy i didn't see previous post i was just looking for definition of peak trans as id never heard of it before

Enidthecat · 10/02/2018 16:30

Should abortion be outlawed then too? Because fetuses don't have human rights until they're 24 weeks do they? (Sorry I know this is an emotive subject but its comparable)

Or is it only "real" women that should have total control over their own body?

Wanting to carry a child is hardly vanity is it. Are you apposed to transwomen adopting too?

Lovemusic33 · 10/02/2018 16:32

I think it’s unethnical not prejudiced, men were not made to carry babies which is why they have no womb. I can’t see it happening any time soon tbh as there would probably be uproar.

I have trans friends, their are other ways they can have children (obviously not by carrying them themselves).

I am happy to give my vital organs to anyone in order to save their life, giving a man a uterus isn’t life saving.