Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

So DD's organ donor card just arrived...

255 replies

Battleax · 10/02/2018 14:22

...and she waved it at me, so I said "Right you're supposed to have a chat about your wishes with your family." She, continuing to waggle it, says "This is me telling you about my wishes". So I said "Okay, but have you thought about your womb and the trans thing?"

Turns out she doesn't want a man using her womb after her death.

So that's fine, but it made me think; should we all be stipulating this in writing to the organ donor organisation?

OP posts:
Charolais · 10/02/2018 17:29

My bits and bobs are coming with me. I changed my mind about organ donation when I found out the war criminal Dick Cheney got someones heart installed into his evil body.

AssassinatedBeauty · 10/02/2018 17:31

Well, that's the point of the discussion! I disagree that uterus transplants into male bodied people doesn't harm anyone.

Anasnake · 10/02/2018 17:32

I'll be dead, I don't care

SophoclesTheFox · 10/02/2018 17:36

So then you must be on board with womb transplanting because thats not hurting anyone is It?

I don't think you can state that with confidence about the foetus involved. They may very much be harmed - there wouldn't be just the usual anti rejection drugs involved, but a whole hormonal regime on top. And we have little idea of how complex the interplay between pregnant woman and foetus is, so no way to accurately replicate it. Who knows what difficulties would be stored up for future years of life for that child?

StillTryingHard · 10/02/2018 17:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Iworrytoomuchh · 10/02/2018 17:42

You know what is ironic, that people who call themselves feminists that are against the trans movements because it’s men taking woman’s rights, are perfectly happy to lower an infirtile biological woman’s right to carry children just on the off chance a man takes it. So you’re punishing woman because of men, which is the exact thing your opposed to?
I used to call myself a feminist, I’m also against a man being able to call himself a woman cus he feels like it but if this is what feminism has become then I’m done for sure.
If someone wants a womb transplant they’re obviously not just a man in a dress wanting to peek at teenagers in unisex changing rooms.
Bury your organs with you if that’s what you want, deny an infertile woman the chance to have kids if it helps you sleep at night knowing they’ll be six feet under instead of being inside a trans woman.
I know it’s hypothetical, they have done a successful womb transplant on a living person so for the younger generation (hopefully) it will be possible to donate wombs to those in need and it makes me sick that you’d rather opt out than risk that.
I don’t shock easily, but I am.

SusanBunch · 10/02/2018 17:46

My bits and bobs are coming with me. I changed my mind about organ donation when I found out the war criminal Dick Cheney got someones heart installed into his evil body.

Seriously? One politician gets a heart transplant and you would deny e.g. a young cystic fibrosis sufferer the chance of a longer life?

WonderLime · 10/02/2018 17:48

I changed my mind about organ donation when I found out the war criminal Dick Cheney got someones heart installed into his evil body.

Imagine if everyone decided not to donate their organs because bad people may get them. Think about the thousands of innocent people who have had/ need transplants. All of those innocent people dead, all because an 'evil' person received an organ.

That's a dreadful outlook. I hope you'd commit to also not receiving any organs too. After all, it may be that they were donated by a war criminal.

SophoclesTheFox · 10/02/2018 17:48

I'm infertile with no children. I'm not tantrumming because the OP hypothetically wouldn't give me her uterus - that would be bonkers. Nobody has the "right" to carry a child - no woman does and certainly no man.

I don't think her course of action is necessary at the moment, given the state of the technology, but neither will I be weaponised to attack her.

KisstheTeapot14 · 10/02/2018 17:48

By the time I'm dead, I will be so past worrying about who gets my organs - good luck to any of the living who get my corneas/heart/womb. God bless 'em I say, and let's hope they do something fine with their second chance.

Are there any countries with an opt out system already in place? Sorry if this has already been asked up thread. I did the government consultation a few days ago online. I think we should do it and yes, medical ethics panels will have a lot to think about. That's why we have them. For families with mixed race kids, the chances of finding a match currently are poor. I recently found that out. Like many families in the UK, ours is a mix. It sent a bit of a chill down my spine to know that if DS or DH ever needed a transplant, the chances were even further away than average. My dad died young and unexpectedly, not sure if his organs were donated, will ask mum, but I would love to think now that he helped someone else live and be happy.

The NHS doesn't ask who you are and what you've done when they collect your broken body from a car crash and rush you off to try and save you. Even though we may think some people unworthy, from our little box of judgement, that thought humbles me every time.

FellOutOfBed2wice · 10/02/2018 17:50

I try not to get sucked in to the trans stuff on here because it makes my uncomfortable. I’m a feminist and I get and support the invasion of female spaces thing but that’s not what this is.

I am especially uncomfortable with you saying [I] wouldn't dream of poking my nose into who receives what or making moral judgements but for this I'll make an exception, because it's not about replacing damaged organs; It's something else. Something cult like and politicised and wasteful... this sounds like something that in darker times might have been said about Jews or black Africans during apartheid or Muslims. “cult like and politicised” in your opinion, but perhaps not in others.

It’s a militant view point and I’m worried that it might just end up being on the wrong side of history.

BrandNewHouse · 10/02/2018 17:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OpalIridescence · 10/02/2018 17:59

This is bizarre, the op has stated clearly she would be happy donating her heart, or any other organ to a trans person.

Simply, she will not support the waste of her tissue to support fantasy.

This is not anti trans stance, it is pro bodily autonomy. That's really ok

KisstheTeapot14 · 10/02/2018 18:01

Yup. Dad (despite being a lovely man in many ways) had imbibed racist attitudes from his ma and pa, so doubtful he would have chosen to donate to a person of different skin colour if asked his opinion (unlike mum, who would help anyone) I mean, he needn't have worried. Not a good match in genes anyway. But, yeah. Seems prehistoric.

Original poster
Battleax · 10/02/2018 18:03

This is bizarre, the op has stated clearly she would be happy donating her heart, or any other organ to a trans person.

Simply, she will not support the waste of her tissue to support fantasy.

This is not anti trans stance, it is pro bodily autonomy. That's really ok

Precisely opal. Thank you.

OP posts:
KisstheTeapot14 · 10/02/2018 18:04

Was agreeing with felloutofbed but obviously took an age to type & more posters had arrived.

southboundagain · 10/02/2018 18:26

"Are there any countries with an opt out system already in place?"

Wales, though they still allow families to refuse on behalf of someone who wants to donate, which I vehemently disagree with.

BelaLugosisShed · 10/02/2018 18:37

Given that wombtransplantuk.org/about
Have only raised £40000 in 18 months towards research, it’s not likely that it will become mainstream any time soon for actual Women, let alone for Male bodies. A donated womb has to menstruate for a start, which means ovaries/fallopian tubes are necessary criteria in the recipient.
Of all the things to worry about, a Male being given priority for a donor womb is at the very bottom of the list, at least for the foreseeable future.

Enidthecat · 10/02/2018 18:40

A lot of pregnancies are risky to both mother and baby. Some mothers carry on with pregnancy knowing their baby cannot survive once born. Is that unethical too?

And as for the "fantasy" comment. Heartless.

AssassinatedBeauty · 10/02/2018 18:47

@Enidthecat no, it's not. Can you really not see the difference between a woman being pregnant, and embarking on a series of experiments to see if a baby can survive in a male body?

Cattenberg · 10/02/2018 18:58

I think I may have reached Peak Mumsnet.

FellOutOfBed2wice · 10/02/2018 19:08

Cattenberg ^ this exactly.

Enidthecat · 10/02/2018 19:17

All medical procedures are initially a series of experiments. Ivf was an experiment. Everything has to be experimental to begin with.

I dont think it would work and I dont see it happening in my life time but your argument of it being experimental is silly.

BestZebbie · 10/02/2018 19:27

If you don't want your womb being used in a body 'not designed to support it' - you realise that your own body will definitely not be suitable to support it either at that stage, right? It will be gone regardless in a few days unless someone else takes it on...

PencilsInSpace · 10/02/2018 19:30

Everything has to be experimental to begin with.

This doesn't mean we have to experiment with everything though.

We could theoretically do all sorts of dodgy medical experiments* but why this? For someone who could become a parent in a far easier and safer way by using their sperm?

*Personally I've always felt 'in the wrong body' because I only have one pair of hands. Fancy donating me yours? You'll be dead so you won't need them. Don't tell me it's a fantasy as that would be mean.