Feminism chat for right wingers

[LeslieKnopefan]

Wondered if anyone else who is on the right like myself (see myself as centre right) wanted to chat about feminism.

I noticed there was a chat going for those in the Labour Party and thought it might be nice for anyone else like myself who is on the right but see them self as a feminist.

To introduce myself to begin... I’m in my mid 30s and always been right wing for as long as I can remember and am an active member of the Tory Party. I didn’t until recently see myself as a feminist because I always had negative connotations about the word and felt it wasn’t an issue that effected me.

But now that I’m older I’ve realised that feminism is a broad church and it is an issue that I’m not only interested in but actually there has been times in my life where being a woman has held me back or where I have been judged in a way that a man wouldn’t have been judged.

The areas that I’m currently most interested in are trans issues and how the Conservative party will deal with the many grey areas that trans rights brings with it.

I’m also concerned about the way we raise girls (and boys!!) such as the seperation of toys and the pinkness of everything for girls that we didn’t see when I was growing up. I know myself that I will say to little girls how pretty they look but wouldn’t say that to a boy, I am trying to stop myself saying such things but I realise how ingrained this is.

Finally, an issue that hasn’t really changed since I was growing up is the idea that men that have many sexual partners are great whilst women are sluts or slags. Again, I can’t say I’ve always been innocent of this especially at school where it seemed to be the norm to talk badly of girls who had lost their virginity but not boys.

Anyway that’s enough from me right now. If there is anyone else on the right here who wishes to join in please do :)

@citykat I could have written what you did word for word re being politically homeless after moving from the Home Counties to the big city.

I’m going to the Conservative Women’s Forum next week which is titled Deeds not Words. Amber Rudd is one of the speakers and I want to bring up the GRA and self ID with her but I’m struggling with how to do it in a way that isn’t combative and counterproductive, I’d like to be able to peaktrans some of the women in the room rather than have them label me a bigot straight off.

Given that Deeds not Words is a suffragette thing I’m sure I should tie it back to this but can’t come up with an eloquent way, aside from pointing out the irony in our voices being silenced when we’re celebrating the centenary of some women finally getting a voice. Any ideas? And is anyone else going - it would be nice to say hi!

Another interested lefty reading along silently here! I'll never vote Tory, but I'm intrigued to learn something about right-of-centre feminism.

Thanks to the OP for starting this thread.

TBH until a month ago ‘feminism’ had never really registered with me (and I’m 45!) I’ve never felt I couldn’t be something because of my sex. The worst sexism I’ve experienced was my [female] boss groaning when I announced I was pg.

However, I feel like the trans thing has woken me up. There are so many things I’ve taken for granted that I feel are under threat - and I worry about my DD and her teen friends facing all this gender bollocks at school. (DD’s best friend is ‘binary’ or ‘non-binary’, whatever the term is - and I feel so sad it has come to this and they’re so conflicted about just being girls.)

Anyway, I came on here to quote Jenni Murray re her interview with Thatcher: ‘She would just say,’ notes Jenni in her best Thatcher impression, ‘I am not a woman Prime Minister, Jenni. I am the Prime Minister.’ So, in the modern parlance, was Thatcher the first non-binary PM?

To be clear, I don't think either Thatcher or May have done anything for women. Except being PM.

I disagree actually!

I was born the year MT became leader of the Tories - a female PM was all I knew growing up.

Growing up with a woman in charge of the country meant that nothing seemed off limits for me - I never thought 'I can't do that, because I'm a girl'.

I can't see how anyone can not describe Margaret Thatcher or Theresa May as feminists. Surely doing the job they do/did, fighting against centuries of male oppression and being successful at it, makes them feminists? Same with Diane Abbot and Harriet Harman who despite the fact I disagree with almost everything they say, I still admire them as feminists just for doing what they do.

YY to this!

I'd say I was pretty central, but slightly right of centre economically & more liberal socially.

I voted Tory in the last 2 elections, Lib Dem in the 2 before that & Labour once in '97, so a mixed bag really.

I don't think political leanings affect how feminist you are - it seems bizarre to me that someone would suggest being right wing/Tory voter is incompatible with feminism.

No, not at all. "Non- binary" is meaningless. Thatcher was rightly pointing out the important part was that she was the prime minister - her sex was irrelevant to that part.

In other aspects of her life being a mother was hugely important but before she entered politics she was a scientist. I'm sure she never described herself as a female scientist.

According to Wiki She was reportedly more proud of becoming the first Prime Minister with a science degree than the first female Prime Minister, and as Prime Minister attempted to preserve Somerville as a women's college

I did not know about her being the first PM with a science degree but thinking about it Wilson and Heath's degrees were PPE, Callaghan wasn't a graduate, McMillan's was Classics and Douglas -Home's was history. Earlier PMs will be either none or Arts/PPE.

She is actually the only PM with a science degree. Blair's is law, Brown's is history and Cameron's is PPE. Theresa May's degree is Geography but as a BA, not a BSc (I've never quite understood how that works although am informed by an Arts Geography graduate from my university that the BSc degree was much harder - she might have been being facetious)

Can I ask, if you are right-leaning, which right/centre-right female journalists do you read or follow on Twitter (if you're on it)?

For the person who said Theresa May has not helped women apart from being PM- she founded the organisation women2win which helps & encourages more women to get involved in politics - local & national.
She is definitely not a person to pull the ladder up behind her.

I voted Tory at the last election, and am very unhappy at self id. Only recently become aware of it all, and have realised that I am a feminist after all.

Just as a point of information, back when Theresa May went to Oxford, they gave BA degrees in all subjects - including engineering, physics, chemistry, maths... (I am only a few years younger than her and have one of these in an impeccably mathematicky-hard-science). So it wouldn't have been the case that TM was doing BA geography in preference to BSc geography - BA geography would have been the only degree on offer.

I also was very much influenced by Mrs thatcher being pm as a child. She came to power when I was five. I had no memory as a child of anyone else being leader. That was hugely important for me, psychologically.
Undoubtedly she would not have described herself as a feminist, in part because she too identified feminism as an inherently left wing movement.

I'm quite a Theresa May fan on the quiet, and I am pretty frustrated with the inclination of modern feminism towards identity poltics and left wing socialist agendas. Only to see women wholesale thrown under the bus the moment it's convenient.

‘I am not a woman Prime Minister, Jenni. I am the Prime Minister.’ So, in the modern parlance, was Thatcher the first non-binary PM?

More like she didn't want to be a lesser or different type of PM. She was PM as all others before her.
I think, in a way, that was very feminist of her.

I agree LWeji - my non-binary comment was a bit tongue in cheek.

I was just having a look at the Women2Win website as a result of this thread, to see whether it contains a definition of who qualifies. The home page says:
"Women2Win aims to increase the number of Conservative women in Parliament and in public life, and is committed to identifying, training and mentoring female candidates for public office."

Anybody know where W2W stands as regards transwomen?

Another pp here who was influenced by Maggie - she was the only PM I knew until John Major came along. I couldn't really get my head around her being the first and only female PM, particularly as we also had the Queen as our non-elected head of state. You don't have to agree with everything she did to recognise the importance of Thatcher

(I'm another closet TM fan - she's not perfect by a long shot, but she was the only one willing to step into the breach and sweep up this sorry mess. Typical woman, eh?)

Honestly don't understand how anybody can be both a feminist and a Margaret Thatcher fan. Ignorance maybe?

We should also respect Mrs may for her work on modern slavery. She drove that legislation and that work. I hope it will be her legacy rather than the shitshow that is Brexit. Some hope.

"she was the only one willing to step into the breach and sweep up this sorry mess"

What Tory election contest did you watch? Either way if her sex had anything to do with it I am more inclined to go for the Glass Cliff theory.

Good find traviata. Someone needs to ask W2W about their stance on TIMs!

They have a very useful list of female Tory MPs on their website here. Lots have relevant responsibilities or previous roles - eg Heidi Allen is on the Work & Pensions Select Committee (will the state pension be paid at the age at which a TIM reaches their "female" age or their "male" age? How will the impact of benefits changes on different groups be measured if we cant' define the two biggest groups?) Victoria Atkins s the PUS for Crime, Safeguarding and Vulnerability (How will we measure female crime if we can't define female? How can it be right to promote guidance in schools that flies in the face of accepted best practice on safeguarding re adults telling other adults about a vulnerable child? How do we protect vulnerable children and adults from malign internet influences?)

Miffer - I'm a feminist but not a Thatcher fan. I just don't think that anyone can ignore that she was the first female PM, and the influence that had on girls growing up in the 1980s and 1990s (like me)

I watched the same election contest as you I note that despite all the ongoing rumblings about TM and her leadership style, no-one but no-one has come forward with a serious leadership challenge. This is not a coincidence

I'm a feminist, I'm also a MT fan and a TM fan.
I'm also not ignorant.

Just because people don't perform feminism in the way you prescribe it, does not mean they're not feminists.

Therin lies the problem the left has colonized a great deal of what it is to even be a feminist by this stage. To the point where it actuall hampered and impairs women's agency in the main.

no-one but no-one has come forward with a serious leadership challenge. This is not a coincidence

Indeed it isn't. Do you think she wouldn't have resigned on the 9th of June if she could have? I can't imagine which was worse for her, the realisation she would have to resign or the realisation she couldn't.

and the influence that had on girls growing up in the 1980s and 1990s (like me)

Me too, I greatly enjoyed her influence in my Northern mining town. It did wonders for my prospects.

Just because people don't perform feminism in the way you prescribe it

Yeah I hear that a lot lately.

Therin lies the problem the left has colonized a great deal of what it is to even be a feminist by this stage

How can it not be? How can women thrive in a society that is run for the benefits of markets and profit? I am honestly asking.

I'm another closet TM fan - she's not perfect by a long shot, but she was the only one willing to step into the breach and sweep up this sorry mess. Typical woman, eh?
This. My husband was going on about what a crap leader she was the other day. I don't think she's doing a great job but I don't think anyone could lead that shower of egomaniacs. And she has stuck it out, which is more than Cameron did.
In some ways though I wish she would step down so we might be able to get out of this nightmare.
I hope history is kind to her. (Feel the same way about Clegg too - it seems putting country above party is bad for your political career).