Feminism chat for right wingers

[LeslieKnopefan]

Wondered if anyone else who is on the right like myself (see myself as centre right) wanted to chat about feminism.

I noticed there was a chat going for those in the Labour Party and thought it might be nice for anyone else like myself who is on the right but see them self as a feminist.

To introduce myself to begin... I’m in my mid 30s and always been right wing for as long as I can remember and am an active member of the Tory Party. I didn’t until recently see myself as a feminist because I always had negative connotations about the word and felt it wasn’t an issue that effected me.

But now that I’m older I’ve realised that feminism is a broad church and it is an issue that I’m not only interested in but actually there has been times in my life where being a woman has held me back or where I have been judged in a way that a man wouldn’t have been judged.

The areas that I’m currently most interested in are trans issues and how the Conservative party will deal with the many grey areas that trans rights brings with it.

I’m also concerned about the way we raise girls (and boys!!) such as the seperation of toys and the pinkness of everything for girls that we didn’t see when I was growing up. I know myself that I will say to little girls how pretty they look but wouldn’t say that to a boy, I am trying to stop myself saying such things but I realise how ingrained this is.

Finally, an issue that hasn’t really changed since I was growing up is the idea that men that have many sexual partners are great whilst women are sluts or slags. Again, I can’t say I’ve always been innocent of this especially at school where it seemed to be the norm to talk badly of girls who had lost their virginity but not boys.

Anyway that’s enough from me right now. If there is anyone else on the right here who wishes to join in please do :)

Yeah same here Quentin

What was her full name?

Lass with the what?

LassWiTheDelicateAir I think.

Ta assassinated

I was coming up with delectable

Which didnt sound right at all

I am not sure if I am quite who you are after op, as I am (depending on the perspective) centre left on most issues. For example I am to the left of the current and previous government when it comes to the economy.

But, even before momentum, I always felt like I had more in common with the centre right than the far left.
One of the things that makes me feel the most sad about the current political situation at the moment is the polarisation; the centre ground isn't being well represented and nuance seems to be eschewed in favour of shouting insults. Or maybe politics has always been this bad and I've only just noticed it!

I don't see a conflict in being both right wing and feminist. I do consider the views espoused by many on the far right to be incompatible with even a very broad definition of feminism, but that is the extreme end. I have had conversations with those more right wing than me where we broadly agree on what "fairness" looks like, but disagree on how to achieve it.

JaimesGoldenHand post is spot on in my experience about what many think of the Trans issue:

I suspect that that many right wingers fall into one of the following categories:

- trans what? Never heard of this. Sounds like a load of rubbish. File with other PC gone mad stuff like equal rights (eye roll)

- hahahahaha. This isn't serious and will never go anywhere so we can ignore it

- doesn't affect me

- sounds bad but I don't care enough to stick my head over the parapet

- bloody hell women are always banging on about something

Thanks for all the replies everyone. To be honest I wrote the thread and then saw the first reply and totally regretted writing it and then today I’ve had a bad day with my depression so didn’t want to come back and look so thank you for the lovely messages and people who have took the time to reply to me.

Thanks for starting this thread OP.

I was born in the mid fifties. When I started work in the early seventies, I was bullied persuaded to join the union - union subs were therefore taken directly from my (not as much as the males on the same grade got) pay.

I absolutely dreaded union ‘meetings’ where you were barked at by the union leaders. The smell of agression was palpable and I always felt unsafe. I was surrounded by people who were apparantly ‘socialists’ - they were by and large racist, mysoginistic homophobes. These people were not people that I wanted to associate with.

I’ve never really understood ‘wing’ politics. I don’t know where it came from and how some ideas are seen as right or left. For example, racism is seen as a far right position, but the most racist people I ever encountered were/are on the ‘left’. I’m pretty sure that much of the appalling grief that Diane Abbott gets is from her own side.

Because of my early experiences I’ve never voted Labour, although I’ve admired many individual Labour politicians (but definitely not Tony Blair - who has something of the slime about him). I’ve in the past voted Tory, Lib/Dem and Green, but for the last couple of decades I’ve been voting for independants.

Like others on this thread I’m state light, slightly right on economic matters and slightly left on social matters.

I’ve read elsewhere on these boards that the Whigs are poised to regenerate themselves, but are waiting for Brexit to be over. The SDPs are another potential new way, but they seem to be only active in the Sheffield area. No idea what their positions are on self id.

It's strange because I consider myself left wing but actually see myself more and more aligned with Tory policies (wouldn't consider Tory right wing as so many connotations of extreme right wing)

For example - I consider myself a radical feminist.

As part of that radical feminism I am devoutly anti-abortion - seeing this as yet another male tool to usurp female creativity

I am pro SAHM and against shared maternity leave. I would pay stay at home parents £60,000 basic

I am anti self id

I am pro giving sex workers full rights while acknowledging that prostitution is another symptom of male sexual and economic oppression

I am anti censorship & would not ban porn while realising that porn degenerates the amazing cultural and aesthetic gifts of film and photography and again puts women in a position of economic and sexual inferiority to men

I love gender play in arts particularly drag, intelligent cabaret burlesque and panto as the most modern equivalent of commedia del'arte

I respect the wishes of all to disagree with me and debate

I realise my feminism is filtered through a prism of my own experiences as a woman in my own individual space in time and place and culture.

But where does this leave me politically?

LeslieKnopefan
Hope you feel better soon

It's a great thread, thanks for starting it

The thing about the Tories having had two women leaders to no Labour ones is interesting. Two things strike me.

It is beyond shocking that Labour has never had a woman leader. No two ways about it. Outrageous.

However. I don’t think that the Tories have the advantage here in anything but numbers. Margret Thatcher was never intended by the party grandees to be Prime Minister. They were expecting her to be an interim, puppet leader. As we now know, that was a catastrophic misjudgment. And I would put money on Theresa May not still being party leader if the party had not been in disarray. The male candidates wanted a sacrificial candidate so when she was perceived to have screwed up one of them could step in to save the day. The fact that she is still there is proof that none of the men want the poisoned chalice.

So not feminism but expediency. Not sure if that’s better or worse than Labour’s straight open misogyny.....,

I started reading the thread but after reading a few mind-boggling sweeping generalisations about right wing women I figured that clearly we need to hear more right wing feminist voices.

I am a centre right feminist. As soon as DS is old enough I intend to become more politically active. I think it's my social responsibility. As a conservative I believe in personally giving back to society - rather than expecting the government to do it on my behalf.

Websites like ConservativeWoman terrify me, sometimes I wonder if it's actually a front for a Momentum smear campaign. What worries me even more is that there is no sensible alternative. There is nowhere for people like me to go. I suspect this is because of the enormous amount of bullying usually propagated by hard left men. Ive often wanted to put something on Facebook and chosen not to for fear of abuse or negatively affecting my career. Occasionally I've felt the same on here.

It's interesting how many people don't see Theresa May as a feminist. Scratch the surface of virtually any conservative female politician and you'll find Women2Win were involved.

I could go on and on but I've got to go swimming. Hopefully more right wing feminists will come on the thread and we can start the conversation properly. Thanks so much for this OP. We need a safe space as much as anyone!

I'm on the right mainly, but I do like to look at politics as a whole and would vote elsewhere if I felt strongly enough.

I stand firmly against self I.D. and I won't allow tribal politics to stop me speaking out with my Labour sisters. My peak trans came with the election of L. Madigan, I simply couldn't understand how a male with no real life experience of woman could be appointed woman's officer. It also turned me completely against the Labour party headed by Corbyn. I have never liked his politics much, just too radical for me, but this was the straw that broke the camels back.

I'm now trans peaked on an almost daily basis and have to my great surprise found myself being followed by and following Labour voters on Twitter, and you know what? I'm more than fine with that. This is an issue that goes above party politics/loyalties as it could easily infect out whole society. It probably wouldn't effect me (old and live rural) but it will effect my daughters and grand-daughters.

So, I say I'm with you comrade sister.

Oh, and... I will not be referred to a cis woman, I am simply a woman. (another peak trans moment).

I'd like to join this thread. I am politically homeless but from a Tory background that has been diluted by life in a big city showing me that Home Counties isn't life as other people experience it. Some of the other feminism threads are such a massive deterrent to wider engagement. Reminded me of an under graduate sociology unit I had to take, so many labels, so much jargon. So off putting for people who would otherwise be interested. Thank you OP for a timely thread that I hope can steer away from all that.

One thing I am pleased about with the Tories is that as a party we have made an effort to get more women as MPs. We certainly have more work to do and even with a female PM I hope within the next 10 years we see more women holding the top jobs.

I also believe our next leader will be female - I can’t see further than Ruth Davidson as the next PM. I think she will come into parliament within the next 2 years and be leader by the next election.

I have met a lot of politicians but when I saw her a few years ago I was totally star struck. She is exactly what the party needs, she seems a lot more grounded and down to earth than other MPs.

On the left I have a lot of time for Jess Phillips who says what she believes whatever the backlash.

But how does that translate to the vast majority of women in the UK? What policies contribute towards equality?

I believe the extra hours of nursery care has been very important for women but we need to look at increasing the payment for this so that more nurseries do it.

I posted the words "tax credits rape clause" on a thread in AIBU asking why Labour calls the Conservatives sexist and got asked "Whats that got to do with it? Says it all really.

I have , as many people do, moved from the left to the centre as I got older. Due to the odd nature of Holyrood I have always voted Labour for first preference and Conservative for second in Scottish elections so voting Tory doesn't scare me.

I wonder if Davidson could have the nerve to push a different type of Conservatism for Scotland. The SNP don't make full use of Holyrood's powers. Davidson could say she woud use them and could push a centrist Conservative government at Holyrood. She would not lose Tories voters- there is no where else for them to go and Labour in Scotland is a spent force at the moment.

At the moment I'm aligned to politicians like Alan Johnstone, Anna Soubry, Liz Kendall, Chuka Umunna, Ken Clarke - basically all centrists. And then there are the surprises like Andrea Leadsome supporting Stella Creasey over the northern Ireland travelling for abortion issue.

I suppose by MN standards I'm a right winger.

Oh thanks for the call outs!

I do have issues with the rape clause yes. I don’t know the answer though as I still agree with only paying benefits for max 2 children.

I would like to see stronger laws against men who don’t pay mantienence and may do some research into what systems other countries use. I know in America they arrest people but I’m not sure that’s the answer.

I also see myself as centre right. I don’t agree with Soubry on brexit but she has worked hard to stop anti abortion demonstrators being allowed at the local hospital.

Glad you are back lass!

Thank you Q !

Soubry is also responsible for squashing any idea of compulsory counselling before an abortion- much to the annoyance of Nadine Dorres.

Mrs Thatcher introduced the Child Support Agency- its implementation needs radical overhaul but as a theoretical concept I see nothing to argue about.

I still remember the outraged horror of supposedly lefty male friend at the idea that a man had to support a child conceived on a one night stand or even , shock horror as he put it " even if she was a prostitute?"

I'm naturally a centrist - on some issues (like the right to form a trade union and withdraw labour) I'm a left winger, on some issues (like having a small state government) I'm a right winger. For various reasons, the Lib Dems used to be my natural home, even though I haven't always voted for them - in some elections it really would have been a wasted vote.

I wonder how history will look back at the period we are in currently? It feels as if there are a number of important political issues that are not traditionally right / left wing. Self ID is obviously one of these, but also Brexit, immigration, care for the elderly and housing.

I don't think any political party is particularly feminist tbh. I'm mostly centre right but does it really matter? Being in Scotland, I find the snp to be primarily concerned with headline grabbing politics, appeasing the trans activists and even though they have a strong female leader they seem to be out of tune with women on this subject. Scottish Labour , well the new leader is basically a Corbyn/momentum puppet so nothing to see there. Scottish Conservatives, I find them more palatable than many of their Westminster buddies and Ruth is a woman I admire (and nobodies puppet), but I don't know where they stand on (real) women's equality.

Thank you for starting - as a fairly recent MNer & long time Tory member, I was beginning to wonder if there were any right wing women on here! I am centre right because it don't want the state to direct our lives, I believe in regulated free markets and I think Britain is a force for good in the world. All of that is compatible although being a feminist, in my view. I do wish Justine Greening and Maria Miller would see sense on the GRA, but I think a lot more Tory women are naturally more cautious about speedy change of this kind and recognise that safety is crucial.

I am really really hoping that Diane Abbot takes over from JC.

Please let this happen, somehow .