Disgusted by all you transphobes - part two

[PidgeonPodge]

I'd just thought of a reply to our latest drop and run when you inconsiderate lot went and took all the spaces up on the last thread (ah, I see what you did there ) and I think it needs saying to our regular drop ins - I figure this is the sort of thread that will draw their virtuous wrath/ illiterate sympathy.

Anyway...

Too many posts to read but I agree with the OP - the transphobia on this website is shocking. A penis is just that, a penis, a sex organ, not an indicator of gender and if you can't get your head around that I suggest you repeat it to yourself daily until you do

Why can none of the posters who pop on here to scream transphobia maintain concentration long enough to actually read anything they are spurting their glittery virtue at?

I on the other hand, can actually read (I know, go me! ) so I'm curious. If this site (and I'm sure you are aiming at this particular section) was even a fraction as transphobic as the people who can't read think...why am I happy to be here, reading and replying? Why is the only place that my own concerns aren't met with derision or hatred?

Don't worry, I don't expect an answer. I suspect I lost you after the first syllable.

Is it phobic to ask reasonable questions?

A phobia is an irrational fear.

I do not have any irrational fear. I am, however, angry, not afraid, angry.

I am angry to be told I cannot mention my biology. I am angry that children are being lied to. I am angry to be told that I may not have boundaries. I am angry to be told that women who have been abused by men should accept men in their places of refuge. Where is the compassion in that?

I am angry that scholarships set up to counter the institutional sexism against women are now going to biological males.

I am angry at the misogyny of expecting women athletes to compete against men, as though their bodies were the same.

But phobic? No, I am not afraid.

I think keeping women on edge and making us police ourselves constantly is a big part of the reason why the acceptable terms keep shifting and you can never be quite sure what you're allowed to say. There's power in that, and both narcissists and bullies love power.

And as being trans is all about self identification, you have to believe us smile

Check and mate :) Nice one TH.

I agree that very, very occasionally, a poster can go a bit far - but generally it's still just into the realms of 'rude' rather than threatening or maliciously insulting (since that would be against the rules).

And on the other hand, this is one of very few places on the internet where we're even able to talk about it in public - people are far ruder on the subject in other forums and don't seem to attract this ire (perhaps because when someone is clearly that off-piste socially, we all know to back off and leave them to it rather than step in - whereas mumsnet is non-threatening)

I think keeping women on edge and making us police ourselves constantly is a big part of the reason why the acceptable terms keep shifting and you can never be quite sure what you're allowed to say

Absolutely - it's a tactic, and it's an abuser's tactic. Look at the relationship boards and there are posts there every day from women being treated this way by their partners, this is just the same thing.

No1 - good question. I have no idea of the answer but I'd also like to know.

So my question is (and I know 100% that we will not do this, but please hear me out) if all us women decided to say ok fine we are 'cis women', would we be finally able to have 'cis women' spaces (refuges, prisons, marches, sports, etc) and be left ALONE or would the TIMs come along and want to suddenly be 'cis women' even though they claim to despise 'cis women'.

Answer to that is no.

Because it's not the word they are after it's the concept.

You are already getting TIMs calling themselves cis women.

Whatever you change the word to, they will appropriate it.

And, of course, a necessary part of subsuming the concept of woman is to minimise the differences between TIMs and women.

Hence chest feeding, pregnant person, etc. We are not allowed to talk about our biology because it's exclusionary, or a privilege.

Waitress: if one black person told me they were ok with me using the n word that wouldn’t make it any less offensive.
I agree, but what word are we using on MN that you find so offensive? Are you offended that humans born with femal genitalia reject the word cis as a descriptor; are you offended that posters are pointing out the difference between sex and gender; are you offended that women want safe spaces from men who believe that by behaving in a stereotypically feminine way that they have an automatic right to invade those spaces?

The ploppers put me in mind of Modern Toss - they have a character called Drive By Abuser.

The difference is that the MT version is funny and sweary and the MN ones are usually scolding, sanctimonious and often quite pearl-clutchy.

Thanks pidgeon I've got Britney spears in my head now!

Oh,
The mumsnet fems
I wanna read
Your toxic mix of transphobia

With a sight of feminist paradise
I'm addicted to you
although they say that you're toxic?
And I love what you do
Do you think that you're toxic?

if all us women decided to say ok fine we are 'cis women', would we be finally able to have 'cis women' spaces (refuges, prisons, marches, sports, etc) and be left ALONE

No. Because if the way TRAs have positioned themselves in a hierarchy of progression, they would argue cis-women only events are like white supremacist events or like men only clubs.

There is no way to comply with TRA politics and still enable women's only spaces.

I think keeping women on edge and making us police ourselves constantly is a big part of the reason why the acceptable terms keep shifting and you can never be quite sure what you're allowed to say

Exactly this. In many situations / forums I would like to post a nice gender critical question. However it takes so long to word so it doesn’t get shut down as ‘transphobic’ and therefore doesn’t need and answer and I am therefore a terf and don’t require respect.

It’s great at silencing debate and very reminiscent of Orwellian use of language and McCarthyism, and also perhaps East Germany before reunification.

Perhaps women (with vaginas not penises) need to reclaim the word transphobic. To make it lose it’s power.

In that Surrey Greens page a man with a beard called Elliot said he wasn’t a man. After trying to silence women and also mansplaining. And I didn’t have the words to say ‘no you are a man, all your actions scream MAN’, the privilege and the misogyny.

Baby, can't you see
I'm calling
A board like you should wear a warning
It's dangerous
I'm falling

I was thinking a bit about transphobia, I mean it's word and the intention of use is an appropriation of "homophobia" (on the list of so many appropriations)

I wondered am I actually fearful of trans people, I mean not exactly, I wish Transpeople every right to get on in life, get jobs, homes and not be persecuted or discriminated and some of them are lovely...

BUT this incessant need to have everything that belongs to women, to redefine us, to attack us for disagreeing, to trample on us to get what they want, push us out the way, lie to us, twist truth as "transphobic" so we stfu.... I'll be honest that actually I'm terrified of this.

MPs are terrified. Journalists are terrified. We are all being terrorised.

My fear of this is legitimate and shouldn't be minimised. I am fearful of Transgender activism and have every reason to be. Am I transphobic? I think yes but not in the way they want me to be.

Partly to lovelyusername reclaiming transphobic.

I was putting away some cutlery earlier and I noticed a fork had self-identified as a spoon.

It was still a fork.

quentin is beginning to worry me

I think the stress may have got to her

That brew isnt for Quentin

I just made myself a coffee so i could watch her downward spiral in comfort

*I was putting away some cutlery earlier and I noticed a fork had self-identified as a spoon.

It was still a fork.*

Only a bigot would insult the transspoon by refusing to try to eat soup with it!

U never post on these threads. Often feel too stupid to do so! But I can't help wondering what would happen if a woman with a vagina actually self I'd as a man and claimed admission to one of those extremely elite make only clubs. Would men stand up and say enough of self I'd?

Male only clubs stupid predictive text!

I can't help wondering what would happen if a woman with a vagina actually self I'd as a man and claimed admission to one of those extremely elite make only clubs. Would men stand up and say enough of self I'd?

Good question. I think this is absolutely key

Men's pool at Hampstead, men's loos, Eton, men's clubs & primogeniture. We need to self identify while maintaining feminine gender expression and invade in large numbers (or bring legal cases threatening invasion). That will put a stop to all this crap quick smart.

To quote pidgeonpodge

"Although anyone who is behind Self-ID doubting that anyone is trans just because they say they are is irony in the extreme"

I love irony . The problem is they are so cognitively dissonant some of these peeps that they dont know their ass from elbow or their penis from their vagina

I can't help wondering what would happen if a woman with a vagina actually self I'd as a man and claimed admission to one of those extremely elite make only clubs. Would men stand up and say enough of self I'd?

If the travesty that is self-ID ever comes to pass then I hope women do this in droves. I'd imagine it would be shut down as soon as it starts negatively affecting 'cis'men. (I've only ever seen that 'cis' used when talking about women, and always as a slur)

rufus

It's pidgeons fault.....

Perhaps women (with vaginas not penises) need to reclaim the word transphobic. To make it lose it’s power

I am nowhere near as clued-up as most people here but a recent thread made me realise I am transphobic by which I see "transphobia" to mean the strong aversion (fear and/or dislike of) a movement trying to rewrite common understanding of reality without scientific grounds, to silence a significant part of the population, and encourage children and very young adults to undergo irreversible surgery and sterilising hormone therapy.

There is also the bit about trying to force private sexual predilections in the mainstream public domain but I'm unclear whether that is a separate issue iyswim?

I am not fearful or disliking of transpeople (although admittedly I only have regular contact with one transwoman who is, indeed, lovely) but the Trans Movement is a different story for me. I am prepared to listen and to change my mind but, currently, I would accept being called transphobic to be honest.