Which women-only spaces do you use, and how would their removal affect you?

[catscan]

I am new to this. I’m struggling to think of any, personally.

At the swimming pool, I use communal showers with my costume on, then change in a cubicle. At the gym, I tend to just walk home in my sweaty clothes rather than use the communal shower/changing area - I’d love for cubicles to be put in and change in the toilets if I have to. I used to change in changing rooms at an old gym but felt uncomfortable.

I don’t use the women-only slot at the doctors or the pool (though would if the timing suited me better). I have private healthcare so had a private room last time I had an operation; prior to that I’ve had an uneventful stay in a mixed ward (with the exception of a children’s ward with a violent eight year old boy). I’ve never been in prison. Some of my gym classes tend to be women only, but men can, and sometimes do join. I’ve been in a book club with mostly women and one man. My doctors are male, including a gynaecologist. Didn’t go to boarding school; did stay in an allocated all-girls room on school trips, but an allocated mixed room on uni trips.

I do use women’s toilets but have no issue with using gender neutral ones and prefer cubicles with their own mirror and sink. At hostels I’ve always paid for private rooms because I wouldn’t want to share with men or women (and if it came to it, would choose whichever was quietest/emptiest).

Am I missing anywhere?

As far as I know the GRA was enacted to help transwomen, and transmen with specific things. Same-sex marriage and pension entitlement.

Those things are no longer an issue.

It was not designed to give men legitimate reasons to break all protocols concerning women's spaces.

It was not designed so men could compete in sport as women, against women.

It was not designed to have men transferred to women's prisons

It was not designed to force women to except men in healthcare, on psychiatric wards.

It was not designed so that sleeping accommodation for children meant mixed dorms.

It was not designed for men to claim eligibility for all women shortlists.

It was not designed for men to claim they are lesbians.

It was not designed for men to be given the most massive stick imaginable with which to beat women.

All those things have happened, because men are exploiting it.

What on earth makes you think that's going to stop?!

I personally don't use that many women only spaces (beyond the standard 'public loo', medical institution, etc. ones) with one notable exception (see below). Many other women do, though, and I wouldn't dare tell them they can't if that's what they need to be comfortable!

As for the exception: I participate in and help run networks and programs for professional women in my line of work. This is a much needed safe space for many of us where we get to talk about and coach/support each other through a range of issues ranging from not being heard in meetings and people assuming our male subordinates are the people in charge to serious problems such as sexual harrassment in the workplace.

I really don't need any men in there - especially not the TRA types demanding to be 'centered' at all times. We set these things up and we invest our time and energy in them because women are desperately outnumbered in our field. Nobody except ourselves looks out for us, so thanks, but we've got a full plate already over here!

Yes I could probably live with some spaces becoming mixed (although I wouldn't like it), but it's not all about me is it? Examples of women I've worked with as an advocate:

• a woman in a refuge who'd been horrendously abused and couldn't even speak to a male police officer without constant panic attacks

• another woman who'd been held prisoner by a partner and abused - couldn't leave the house as she was terrified in case she saw a man

-women who'd had relationships on mixed sex psychiatric wards when they were in no position to consent

• women in rehab who'd had sexual relationships, a few of whom had become pregnant when they were really at their most vulnerable.

These cases are more common than you'd think, and I think all these women and others deserve not to be forced to share toilets, changing rooms, refuges, prisons, hospital wards or to be medically examined by men.

I've always been on women's only wards in hospitals (mainly gynaecology issues), and always visited female gynae consultants.

I did have one internal exam with a male hcp, which sparked complaints from the nurses on the ward for the way he carried it out.

My job requires that I be female.

I use female toilets and communal changing areas at the gym. I specifically don't use mixed gender fitting rooms, or take my kids in there to try on clothes.

More importantly for me, my kids use single sex toilets and go to a girls only social group with outings and sleepovers. They wouldn't want to go to the group if they would have to sleep with boys.

The one time I’ve been made to feel uncomfortable in a communal changing room was at my last gym which had a couple of (it seemed) lesbians who would vigorously towel themselves, wander around naked and quite openly looking at people changing. I changed gyms.

Re: shop changing rooms, I’ve never had a curtain opened on me except once in a charity shop by a man working there who had Down’s. He did it twice and was clearly deliberately having a look, and when I complained the other staff just looked awkward.

I do think it’s outrageous that men are allowed to stay over in maternity wards. I’m surprised so many women object to males doing smear tests. On what grounds can you reject a doctor/nurse now?

I’m surprised so many women object to males doing smear tests.

You're a rape survivor and you still don't understand why a woman might not want a man doing her smear test? Really now?

I had a serious gynaecological issue a few years ago and my GP was male, my scan technician was male, my gynaecologist, oncologist, surgeon and anaesthetist were male. The nurses were all female except one. Genuine question for people who’d refuse a male doctor/nurse for a smear, would you have asked for all them to be female?

I used to play a contact sport. Granted I don't right now cause I'm a lazy fucker, but my right on team now allows transwomen and TBH I can't afford the increased risk in injuries, so much as I would like to go back (after getting a bit fitter). I won't.

Genuine question for people who’d refuse a male doctor/nurse for a smear, would you have asked for all them to be female?

I wouldn't care about the anesthetist and the surgeon but I would much prefer the rest to be female.

my right on team now allows transwomen

Jesus Christ.

Yeah - neither of my rapists were sober qualified men in positions of authority gaining access to me whilst they carried out their jobs. I wonder if there are stats available on what percentage of women request a female?

I do understand why women might request a female but I didn’t expect nearly everyone to do so.

Yeah - neither of my rapists were sober qualified men in positions of authority gaining access to me whilst they carried out their jobs.

Not really relevant.

@catscan Genuine question for people who’d refuse a male doctor/nurse for a smear, would you have asked for all them to be female?

A point of order in response to this.
Many of us saying we would want female HCPs are specifically meaning:

If we have asked for a female HCP, we do not want a male bodied person who is claiming to be a woman providing our care. <a class="break-all" href="//(www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-female-nhs-nurse-i-asked-for-came-with-stubble-83rq9p0gg?shareToken=75b74db2ee360d149e85b2788fd681c0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Like this)

That is quite different to male bodied people who are living and working as male HCPs. You see?

Lesbians were sexually harassing you, you say?

Toilets - two circumstances spring to mind: The first, when I was 16 years old on a school trip our train was delayed and the train toilet out of order. I had my period and leaked through my pad. I had no money to buy new trousers so had to stand half naked in the toilets at the station and wash and dry my trousers. I was embarrassed enough but would have been distraught had I had to do so with men around. Secondly, something I encounter frequently now are ladies toilets that are too big to take a buggy into. I go to the far end cubicle and pee with the door open and the buggy blocking the door. For some reason I have always had anxiety dreams about using the toilet or showering in public so would feel deeply uncomfortable and physically vulnerable about doing this with men around.

Two of the three pools I regularly swim at have sex-segregated showering and changing facilities and I find it liberating and reassuring that most of the women do so naked. I would not feel able to use these facilities if males shared them, no matter how they identified.

I go to the far end cubicle and pee with the door open and the buggy blocking the door.

Yeah I've done that many times too

I prefer a female for discussing period problems and for smears.

I am generally happy with a Male GP or surgeon.

I would only use female only, individual shop changing rooms.

I use a female changing are at the pool, but am ok with the family cubicles in a mixed area.

I want female only toilets.

My male consultant (obstetrics) basically accused me of lying about my own body because my body isn't text book
I switched to a female consultant and had a completely different experience

Toad I didn't say I didn't expect so many women to say they'd prefer a female. You brought up my rape, to me that doesn't affect my feelings towards male doctors or nurses. I understand it may well do for others.

Crow I didn't say they were sexually harassing me, but I felt uncomfortable. To be honest I felt uncomfortable changing in front of other women too. It'd always be my preference not to change in front of anyone if I had the option not to.

Shots yes I get it, but presumably if you've got to the stage of asking for a female, you wouldn't want a male regardless of how they present. So I was asking if the same preference applied to other male clinicians. Whilst I knew you could specify gender for sexual health tests and smears, to be honest it didn't cross my mind that I even could insist on a female for the other roles.

Does anywhere in the UK have communal changing rooms (without cubicles) for women nowadays?

I remember going in one as a child and being shocked by it, and that would have been in the early nineties. I've been in plenty with flimsy curtains but none except that one that didn't have cubicles at all.

It's not just the occasions where you might choose or not choose to be in contact with a male bodied person. It's about living in a society where a delusion is at play, one which devalues you, it's like saying racism doesn't exist because I don't feel it has had an impact on my life.

You might find an interaction with an AGP transvestite an amusing anecdote, but for me it's about day in day out, having someone in your life who desperately needs help with his sex fuelled delusion, who scares you and makes you feel vulnerable. Whom you have to accommodate, agree with everything they imagine to be true, lest he lash out and you then would be at fault for that, accused of bigotry.

And in this time the chap can't access the mental health help he needs because everyone is a bit titilated by their own right on support, and validating his thoughts rather than helping him.

It's not just about our feelings, it's about his needs also.

Is it the same situation with other mental health issues? Are people who develop arousal responses to due trauma etc not helped?

Yes catscan. My gym has them. Have you seen the swimming pool thread?

Does anywhere in the UK have communal changing rooms (without cubicles) for women nowadays?

Yes. Many places. Leisure centres in my region built within the last 3 years have them, not to mention the older places.

I get to a fair few sports/leisure venues, and I honestly can't recall seeing individual changing cubicles for women only in any of them.

sober qualified men in positions of authority gaining access to me whilst they carried out their jobs
this description is not at all a guarantee of any kind of safety, sadly. Larry Nassar is obviously (hopefully) an outlier, but just because a man is a HCP does not mean he treats women with respect.