Which women-only spaces do you use, and how would their removal affect you?

[catscan]

I am new to this. I’m struggling to think of any, personally.

At the swimming pool, I use communal showers with my costume on, then change in a cubicle. At the gym, I tend to just walk home in my sweaty clothes rather than use the communal shower/changing area - I’d love for cubicles to be put in and change in the toilets if I have to. I used to change in changing rooms at an old gym but felt uncomfortable.

I don’t use the women-only slot at the doctors or the pool (though would if the timing suited me better). I have private healthcare so had a private room last time I had an operation; prior to that I’ve had an uneventful stay in a mixed ward (with the exception of a children’s ward with a violent eight year old boy). I’ve never been in prison. Some of my gym classes tend to be women only, but men can, and sometimes do join. I’ve been in a book club with mostly women and one man. My doctors are male, including a gynaecologist. Didn’t go to boarding school; did stay in an allocated all-girls room on school trips, but an allocated mixed room on uni trips.

I do use women’s toilets but have no issue with using gender neutral ones and prefer cubicles with their own mirror and sink. At hostels I’ve always paid for private rooms because I wouldn’t want to share with men or women (and if it came to it, would choose whichever was quietest/emptiest).

Am I missing anywhere?

Can your daughter choose friends to share with bebanjo?

My OH is a teacher at a secondary school with a MtF child who transferred in from out of country in year 9. The teachers know but the students are oblivious. So it could have already happened?

I disagree. I have never been in a dv shelter, a prison, received rape counselling etc. I have never been raped so would not feel traumatised by a penis in a changing room ( although I wouldnt like it) So none of those things affect me. However I do care about the women that they do affect. To not care about those women would make me a bit of an arse I think.

I Have a history of domestic abuse, for that reason I always ask for a female gp. Iam extremely grateful for sex segregated toilets, changing rooms in shops and swimming pools/gyms - I wouldn't use a unisex changing room or toilet, and I wouldn't let my young daughter's either who have also been affected by their abusive fathers behaviour. Iam strongly in favour of same sex hospital wards, and I may get flamed for this, I don't think men should be allowed to stay overnight on postnatal wards ( currently 3 weeks away from giving birth and been told my local hospital allows this, I have been in a state of anxiety and panic since )

OP Have you never retreated to the women's loos in a pub, venue or club to avoid the creepy guy who simply would NOT leave you or your friend alone? Have you really never had to keep peering out of the door to check he's gone? Lucky, lucky you.

Travelling in Turkey with my sister one year we visited an abnormal number of harams just for the opportunity to spend an hour without the constant sexual harassment two unaccompanied women on the streets caused.

My local swimming pool has open changing areas for women. If you put changing cubicles in it would reduce the space for lockers and the space for people to change. Same goes for single toilet cubicles with basins etc. there is always a queue for the ladies, but hey, lets make it worse, just so some bloke in a dress can get his jollies from standing in the queue with us (making it longer).

Are you one of those lucky people who is a perfect dress size so never needs to try a piece of clothing on in store? I, for one, have had a curtain ripped aside more than once while half undressed by someone "checking" that the cubicle is empty. Fine if female, but I'm not best pleased if it's some bloke who gets to ogle me striped to my grey underwear while wriggling into a swimsuit, boobs hanging out (it's happened to me)

How would you feel about 'sharing' i.e. being in a locked psychiatric ward with a psychotic man?

How do you think it will affect you ability to use the service in future?

I had a mastectomy and would have hated being in bed next to a man on the ward, it was bad enough being really close to the other female patients. Also, want my breast care nurse to be a woman, would have hated having my prosthesis dished out to me by a bloke in a dress

At the sports centre I use the changing rooms are sex-segregated, but communal within that, iyswim. Showers are just behind curtains. I need to use the changing rooms to get changed when I go there straight from work, and I need to shower afterwards because it is a bit of a drive from my home and I get very cold and uncomfortable in sweaty gear.

If men are allowed into those changing rooms, I think I will have to quit my sport. I don't see what the alternative is. I will not remove my clothing and shower when there could be any number of peeping toms or worse in there with me. I've been training in that sport for 15 years and have represented my country, btw.

I also compete in openweight martial arts tournaments. If men start entering those I will have to quit, in case one of them seriously injures or kills me.

so my daughter has to change how she does things just so she does not have to share a room with boys?
She likes to go on her own, she is very independent, she likes to make friends there.

Am I unusual in not really caring about shared toilets and changing rooms, if there’s cubicles? Or not caring about having a man for an intimate examination? (They always have someone else in the room too, presumably for their own protection too.)
I think you are unusual for not caring about having a man do your initimate medical examinations.
For me, I may well not be affected by some of the issues. So what? Yes, I’m not planning on going to prison. My mental health’s ok, so I won’t be in a psychiatric ward with a TIM on it.
But, as you’re new to this ( I assume you mean feminism, not just mumsnet), here’s something to think about.
Feminism isn’t all about you you you.
As a feminist, I think carefully about how other women are affected. Women who are different from me. I don’t just think ‘well, it doesn’t affect me so it doesn’t matter’.
I don’t want to live in a world where we all do that.

I have c-ptsd after sexual trauma.
I've had plenty of therapy but still feel more comfortable in women-only spaces generally.
I work in a women-only office, which is nice.

Some women who access our services wouldn't be able to come to things if they were 'mixed'.

When I was first struggling with anxiety I asked for a female therapist. If this hadn't been possible, I wouldn't have had therapy.

See also physiotherapist, dentist. (had wisdom teeth out under local even though I require elephant-level doses, as under general I would have had no control over whether men were there.)

Changing room at my gym - if it was inclusive of males I wouldn't be able to go swimming.

Women-only book group. If I couldn't go, I would lose a social outlet (which are helpful for resilience and recovery).

Feminist group - whenever I've attended ones with men they take over.

There's sometimes an implication that if you have c-ptsd you should fix yourself somehow - 'get therapy' etc like it's a big joke. I certainly do get therapy and it helps me to maintain a life and independence but it's not an instant cure-all.

Statistically, males are violent against women on a regular basis. I'm vulnerable due to autism and existing c-ptsd. It's not like an irrational fear of spiders.

I live a fairly normal life, go to shops, go to the cinema, do all sorts, but I'm managing that because I've found ways of relaxing and socialising in women-only spaces.

Re: toilets, I really prefer women-only due to moon-cup noises. Ideally ones with a sink in them.

Entirely closed (floor to ceiling) toilet cubicles would need to be well-designed so noise didn't leak out.

Hospital - I've only ever stayed in a women only ward, and I wouldn't want it any other way. I'd feel uncomfortable with men in there, and did during visiting hours, at least at those times the curtains could be drawn and it wasn't at all hours. It would have been really difficult to have men there overnight.

Gym - I go to a women's only gym, I've tried mixed gyms and I felt far more self conscious there.

Therapy - I did therapy at a local women's centre. It felt like a safe space, so even waiting in reception felt therapeutic.

Women's toilets - I remember them being a haven from creeps and abusive boyfriends, and would be very unkeen on unisex toilets that aren't a self enclosed toilet+sink unit.

Changing rooms - there's no way I'd use a mixed sex changing room unless the cubicles were fully enclosed, eg. no curtains.

In the past couple of years I've been able to see a male GP but I think that's because I've been treated with respect whenever I've requested a woman, and I built up a level of trust that allowed me to try this out and it's worked ok so far.
This is a huge thing for me - have only noticed when writing the above out how huge.

I get that you have an interest, catscan, but please bear in mind a lot of women who prefer sex-segregated spaces may prefer these for quite sensitive reasons, and might not want to be open about those reasons, as often we have our concerns dismissed.

Loos
Changing rooms, including shops and gym.
Not explicitly a woman's only space but was very glad when I visited the colposcopy suite that everyone there was a woman.

Mainly hospitals for me. My old gym was open changing rooms with benches, so that would have bothered me too, but new one has individual cubicles. And being patted down by security staff - I get this maybe a few times a year, I wouldn’t want it to be done by a man.

Also though I have worked in a job where I did personal care for vulnerable people who had the right to request a same-sex worker in that role (& got it by default if they weren’t able to ask, as many weren’t).

Post after post of women it does affect.

slug no I’ve never hidden in a club toilet to avoid a creepy man. I’ve always found a bouncer and had them removed (have done the same with a high woman who was harassing me too). I had no idea people did hide in toilets.

I’ve been hassled by men in Muslim countries too but am more specifically thinking about the UK.

You have lived a charmed life, OP.

Have teenage daughters and we live in Scotland - we would be affected by the new rule on residential trips, at school and activity groups, where boys will be able to share dormitories and showers with the girls, however much the girls object to that, and parents will not be informed. I suspect that this will lead to no residential trips happening anymore, as the school and other organisations will not be able to safeguard effectively.
If an intimate procedure, eg smear test or even a mammogram, much prefer a woman. Also, when a doctor calls someone in as a "chaperone" it is a woman - may now be a man. Having said that, I have been given an intimate procedure by a man in the past - I objected and was told off for objecting. He was not a transgender person.
Swimming baths - I prefer to use the women's communal changing rooms where there is a shower with just a shower curtain, and women change in front of each other. I don't much like the tiny unisex cubicles, and I don't really like unisex areas around the cubicles - prefer all women. I don't want to see penises in the showers or changing room, and I certainly don't want my daughters to see them and to have to shower in front of men.
I will miss women's sport - not interested in watching its death throes (eg a transwoman beating women to a pulp in the boxing ring, as has already happened). And then what? Transwomen competing against each other?
Don't want to be in a mixed hospital ward when I am dying of cancer, or whatever it is that kills me off.
Not happy about unisex changing rooms - for teenage daughters or myself. Don't want harassment or abuse, which is more likely if men are there.

To be honest I feel a bit attacked here. I’m not posting on a feminist board because I think it’s a laugh, but to deepen my understanding and to hopefully connect with similar minded people.

I’ve posted a question and shared my experiences and a lot of people have answered (thank you!) but I’m also being told I’m wrong and only thinking of myself. Of course people’s experiences vary. No, I don’t have personal experience of being on a psych ward or of abuse that’s affected me very severely, but I imagine many don’t.

I have been in hospital for a considerable number of days in the last few years. I was often covered in blood, I would have struggled to walk past men in my blood stained night gown to get to the loo.

I will now no longer go swimming or to the gym because I cannot get changed near or in front of men.

I will not use changing rooms because I cannot get changed near or in front of men.

I will not use public toilets because of the above.

I am grateful I do not have to use a refuge but here is a link to a thread in which I describe how needing a women’s only space was important to me as a 9 year old in a domestic violence refuge.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3160220-to-write-to-Women-s-Aid-and-ask-you-to-do-the-same-if-you-value-their-services

I have never asked for a specific doctor or nurse so I’m not sure of the proceedings. Can you ask for someone else, just if you feel uncomfortable with the person assigned?

This touches on an important point in this debate, just because women don't complain doesn't mean they're happy with a situation especially when you take into account female socialisation - putting others feelings before your own.

Many women when presented with something i.e a male HCP will just accepted it, where as if presented with a choice they'd choose a female. Being able to ask for someone else in the first instance is immediately psychologically off putting as it can be seen as "making a fuss" etc and some woman may not even know they have a right to do it where as being given a choice at the outset is easier.
There are many subtle ways that folk can be pressured into accepting things that they don't really want to.

There is also the question of peer pressure. A pp mentioned TIMs being welcomed in roller derby. From my knowledge of this (and my knowledge isn't great so absolutely willing to be corrected) it attracts a lot of younger women who as a group I'd imagine, would be more accepting of TIMs as women.

Being a GC young woman and going against the peer group would be hard and probably only get you ostracised and so maybe you stop taking part. I'd imagine that roller derby then seems very accepting of TIMs because all those objecting either leave or keep their mouths firmly shut.

It can seem so easy and obvious to say no to something until it isn't...

Sex-segregated spaces are there for a reason. Those reasons haven’t gone away.

Men need to start calling out other men on their behaviour.

This whole debate makes my piss boil. Whether you personally us them or not, they are necessary. That’s the thing with being a woman, empathy and compassion. We’re bloody good at that stuff. Other types of women could learn a lot from us.

Wow!! The bouncers took you seriously and didn't just try to cop a feel themselves? Charmed life indeed

I know a lot of women who've stopped going to derby and in some cases it was their only exercise and/or social outlet

And no I haven’t led a charmed life. I’ve been beaten, I’ve been raped, I’ve been in an abusive relationship and I’m very concerned about the changes to gender recognition in the UK.

I can see this isn’t the place for me.