Tamsin sutherland

[iamawoman]

countrysquire.co.uk/2017/10/28/transinister/

Interesting and thoughtful article

I feel kind of stuck in the middle here because I understand why frogsoup went "wait a fucking minute" about threats of doxxing, and I do think Infamous is well into tinfoil hat territory at this point, but I don't have the sort of reflexive I'm horrified that this was even said response that some people do. I think it's a side effect of being an ex pat kid, you get used to hearing wildly different theories on how the world works and having to filter for bias and reasonability.

Still think there's someone/some group pulling strings behind the scenes in terms of the rapid acceptance of TRA theory in politics and the media and people walking back their positions in a way that indicates either fear or pressure being brought to bear on them, just don't think it has anything to do with Islam, the Clintons, etc.

I appreciated the way T has thought about so many different issues, and considered if there is a common energy behind them.
The sexualisation of children, the eradication of women, the expectation to chant propaganda which is clearly untrue, no platforming, racial tension, no debate...

Considering possibilities does not mean you are paranoid.

I also think it's reasonable to be worried about the rise of robots and AI.

None of this is very new though- the dystopian speculative fiction writers have predicted pretty much everything.

The trans issue is made more complex because the opposition to the ideology has meant very disparate groups have found common ground but not always for the same reasons. It's a bit of a headfuck.

My perspective is that "men can't become women, and vice versa" is at such a "water is wet, fire is hot" level of obviousness that it's inevitable that you'll end up with people agreeing on that who don't agree on anything much else. It's kind of like you have one small group of people going "gravity isn't real and you're a bigot if you say it does!", and everyone else going "wait, what?"

Still think there's someone/some group pulling strings behind the scenes in terms of the rapid acceptance of TRA theory in politics and the media and people walking back their positions in a way that indicates either fear or pressure being brought to bear on them, just don't think it has anything to do with Islam, the Clintons, etc.

Indeed.

I do agree Kittens in that it's taken me and quite a lot of people by surprise and the way it's gained momentum and the way a lot of politicians seem to have bought into it. I think drunk the kool aid is the phrase I've seen? To my mind it doesn't seem logical. After all why would you want to piss off and upset 50% of your voting public for 0.3%? It just doesn't add up. I know that women get a raw deal mostly but we do still vote!

Maybe we are all being primed for something that we havent even considered!! Breaking down our boundaries, destroying freedom of speech under the guise of labelling it hate speech, denoting women as privileged whilst denying that female is a biological fact!!

Here's the thing though. Lots of otherwise sensible people think we are raging, pitchfork-wielding terfs out to smash everyone trans. And not being prepared to listen and understand where we are coming from is what is stopping an open debate. I personally think Breitbart is hateful. But people are reading if, and ignoring what they are saying doesn't help anyone. I decided to start widening my media goggles after Brexit. Echo chambers aren't healthy.

That's another point in the "not a grass roots movement" box, the fact that it did take so many people by surprise. Look at the fight for gay marriage for example, it was no surprise to anyone when that came to the point of legal changes being made because it had been openly discussed and worked on for years.

I think it's useful to make a distinction between "wrong" and "evil", and that we're going to have a hard time working with people to get this issue resolved without making that distinction.

I am very conscious of the fact that people consciously being PC about both Islam and Transgenderism is both harming women's rights and justifying poor attitudes towards and treatment of women.

YY, GuardianLions.

T said: “I simply don't think that kids should be indoctrinated in any way shape or form, it does them all a disservice - and last years Teen Vogue article encouraging anal sex in girls seems clear to me that they seek to switch the primary erotic target from genitalia to the anus, we all have one after all, and that alone would turn everyone kinda gay. Eugenics. That's what this all is in my opinion, and I don't agree with it. There is a definite agenda, it's postmodernism, and it's a clear and present threat to society.”

I agree, there is an agenda. First, they dumbed down State education; afterall it takes only approx 3 or 4 generations to produce a family in which no one knows very much. That helped to cause a lack of critical thinking. The muddying of gender and the early sexualisation of children is deliberate. We are being mixed up thru mass immigration, scaring women off the streets as per Cologne and now via this issue; personally I see the connection. Also, it seems that the importance and protection of mothers towards their children is being eroded, because afterall it is the woman who would fight tooth and nail for the mind and life of her child. So let’s undermine her biological standing by having lots of quasi women. Oh, and dont call mothers mothers because that will offend the new women who have no uterus and the wrong set of chromosomes.

Great post GuardianLions at Tue 06-Feb-18 13:55:17

This is all part and parcel of obliterating the individual (male & female), their biology and their relationship to their children. Already gender identity surgery has increased in Holland in younger and younger people.

I mentioned a podcast earlier about the money behind the trans movement and I'm paraphrasing (a lot) here but one thought was that this paves the way for trans race and other such ideas and when you take away people's identities like that and make them a free for all you make it impossible for the oppressed to organise as a group and protest against their treatment, so this goes for LGB, Black Lives Matter, women's movements and any other group oppressed by virtue of being born a certain way. What this means is oppressed workers here and in other countries would be unable to group together under such banners and oppose ill treatment. I don't know how much truth there is in that but it did strike a cord since we are currently in a position where women are becoming afraid to have women only meetings or are having such meetings or safe spaces considered exclusive and somehow wrong/immoral.

I think that making it difficult or impossible to clearly define membership in a group makes it hard to enforce any kind of equalities legislation, and am trying to figure out of this is one of the goals of whoever is providing the money/pressure behind the scenes or just an unintended consquence that they either don't care about or are delighted with.

Sorry I'm tired. I meant to add that this would work to the advantage of wealthy corporations who wish to exploit people - something we can't deny already goes on. While it may sound a little out there to think there is something shadowy and sinister behind this it all moved a bit too fast and with such power for such a 'marginalised' group - so something powerful is behind it. Lets face it a fair few of the more extreme TRAs out there couldn't possible organise all this alone through their craziness. Another thing I am always struck by is the predominance of TIMs in IT - a sector which could wield a great deal of influence.

AngryAttackKittens I feel the same - it makes sense and I could see how it would be to the benefit of wealth corporations/ individuals but I am unsure about whether it was a deliberate ploy or as you said an unintended consequence.

Well nice bunch you lot are. He is banned, but the thread kept up, so y'all can put the boot in while he had no way to defend himself.

And he is right about the links between Islam and trans agendas. Educate yourselves instead of using that liberal kneejerk reaction to kick a person while they are clearly suffering and wanting some good to come out of it.

Lack of critical thinking is so deeply ingrained that two STEM students I know believe that it is biologically possible to change sex. Not only that but this is in no way challenged by their lecturers.

I have been watching a lot of Jordan Peterson lately. It's all very worrying

Nobody has been banned. Do try to keep up.

Unless Mumsnet quietly did so behind the scenes and didn't note that in this thread, in which case it would be fascinating to know how you knew about it, Joe.

If anyone out there can come up with any other reason that connects Political Islam with Political Postmodernism and Cultural Marxism, I'm all ears - but I've searched for two years, ad it's the only thing that I have turned up that explains why the two walk hand in hand and want to incarcerate you if you dare speak out.

Well said, Tamsin. Political Islam and the regressive Marxist left make unlikely bedfellows but they DO walk hand in hand. The former cannot abide the latter because they are atheists, but at the moment each serves the other's purpose.

Political Islam and the regressive Marxist left make unlikely bedfellows but they DO walk hand in hand. The former cannot abide the latter because they are atheists, but at the moment each serves the other's purpose.

Or maybe it's a better tactic than invading countries, inventing stories about WMD, and really horrific acts of terrorism. They do make unlikely bedfellows, especially after the Charlie Hebdo attack, but maybe that's come from a need for forgiveness and understanding rather than a conspiracy.

T has been banned and locked out, Frog. With no right to reply or defend their position.

(Sigh)

I suspect that someone must have sent out the bat signal to some sort of right wing blog, and now we're going to have a troll invasion.