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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Tamsin sutherland

406 replies

iamawoman · 04/02/2018 20:00

countrysquire.co.uk/2017/10/28/transinister/

Interesting and thoughtful article

OP posts:
sportinguista · 07/02/2018 09:30

Yes, that is kind of weird as there are IMO a lot of far more important issues that they could be talking about than Dave who sometimes likes to be Davina and gets off on it not being able to go in the ladies. Not sure when it became a more worthwhile crusade than say the ice sheets in the arctic melting. After all nobody will be able to go in the ladies if it's 50 feet under water will they?

AngryAttackKittens · 07/02/2018 09:31

They seem to be totally unaware that what they're really doing is shouting PENISES MUST BE MADE HAPPY AT ALL TIMES all over social media.

LangCleg · 07/02/2018 09:32

I've been told that making this distinction is cruel, as is even pointing out that the Daves of the world exist.

Such gaslighting. It's not cruel. It's safeguarding. And safeguarding that comes with decades of research and knowledge attached.

It's not our fault that transactivists decided that they needed validation so much that we all had to genuflect at the holy altar of gender identity the second it was announced. It's not our fault that transactivists decided that gatekeeping was a heretical affront. It's not our fault that no gatekeeping means that all the Daves are now as valid as trans as anyone. It's not our fault that Daves are over-represented in the proportion of men who perpetrate domestic abuse and sexual offences.

The transactivists insisted that entry to their cohort should be so open as to include Daves and all the sexual offending that comes with them. And so it's all on them now it's backfiring.

sportinguista · 07/02/2018 09:35

From what T has been saying it has been happening for far longer than most of us were aware. A few of the Lesbian women on here seem to have picked up on it far quicker as it seems to have affected them sooner. I've been out of the goth/fetish scene for so long (20 years) that I've no real idea what it's like now but I do recall most were quite polite and got on with their thing in it. Where these hard liners have come from is a mystery to me too. I do know that in a lot of different areas of life extremes do seem to be growing in various ways which is interesting and scary.

LangCleg · 07/02/2018 09:39

it has been happening for far longer than most of us were aware

Definitely for much longer than I've been aware. And I have a longstanding trans friend who tried to warn me for ages before I finally caught up.

I think a lot of women have been busy trying to deal with austerity - either in their own lives, or fighting cuts on behalf of others.

GuardianLions · 07/02/2018 09:41

TRAs are about as androgynous as Sylvester Stallone.
Grin

But in all seriousness - I think that the Gavin/Dav(ina)e is a powerful image and story. It would be great as a gif, video or meme... It illustrates the point in a really helpful way for people distanced from the issues, but wanting to be politically correct and inoffensive.

sportinguista · 07/02/2018 09:55

It's really about the fact that it's not all lovely androgynous boys in eyeliner isn't it? It's about the realities of what the people it actually covers are, such as the transgender sex offenders and fetishists which is a far cry from that.

Yes most women I suppose have been bogged down with trying to get by. I personally have had a hard few years and it takes most of my energy to do what I have to each day. Also unless you are directly involved you won't see it.

Truth is I don't know what to do or how we stop this beyond standing up and being counted and most importantly keeping on discussing no matter how hard it gets.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/02/2018 10:04

Some of the individuals currently calling themselves trans women (the dude from Rise Above springs to mind) are probably the ones who used to beat up the lovely androgynous boys in eyeliner when they were at school.

frogsoup · 07/02/2018 10:16

@TheWizardOfWas This thread has been profoundly shocking to me. The OP has said, in black and white, 'if you don't act... in 20 years all your daughters will be wearing burkas'!!!!!!!! Yet people are still piling in saying ooh, how interesting and insightful. I have been a staunch supporter of the anti-trans activism threads on mumsnet - I was peak transed by this board - but this thread has been a real wtf moment for me.

Despite being aggressively accused of being a shill, in the pay of momentum, and being threatened with an IP address search (all tactics that I'd associate with trans rights supporters), I've received not a jot of support from anybody, and indeed somebody even apologised to the OP for my rudeness!!! I feel like i've dropped down the rabbit hole.

I don't want to engage with the OP, who frightens me, any further - I have not read any of his replies since my last post and I will continue to ignore any further ones - but since starting a new thread would be deemed a TAAT, I thought I'd have one last try at asking - apart from you wizard, are there other women on this board who think making links between trans activism, immigration, islam and the end of western civilisation is beyond the pale? And if so, please could you speak up? I've been on mumsnet over ten years now and I've never been so horrified at a thread.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 07/02/2018 10:20

I don't think there are any links between trans activism, immigration and Islam frogsoup. I didn't notice you being threatened with an IP address search but if so I agree that is absolutely not on Flowers

AngryAttackKittens · 07/02/2018 10:21

I agree that the immigration/end of western civilization stuff is ridiculous. I've decided that arguing with transsinister about it would be a complete waste of time, and thus moved on to more interesting/relevant stuff.

frogsoup · 07/02/2018 10:23

Thank you Tallullah and angryattack, that helps.

The post re the IP address has now been deleted Talulah - I was however relieved that there were so many people who reported it that MNHQ had to mass-mail us to tell us about it!

Justabunchofcunts · 07/02/2018 10:25

I don't think there are any links between trans activism, immigration and Islam frogsoup. I didn't notice you being threatened with an IP address search but if so I agree that is absolutely not on flowers

Second this.

Justabunchofcunts · 07/02/2018 10:26

Can people do that just from posts on here? The IP address search?

AngryAttackKittens · 07/02/2018 10:27

And I missed the IP thing because when someone starts ranting about that kind of stuff I tune them out the same way you would a shouty drunk at closing time, so skimmed that part. Nope, not having that, will pay more attention and call it out if it happens again.

frogsoup · 07/02/2018 10:28

I bloody hope they can't Justabunch! Still a nasty and intimidatory tactic all the same.

frogsoup · 07/02/2018 10:31

@AngryAttackKittens thank you Flowers

infamousT · 07/02/2018 10:43

More good points. When I first started speaking out about where this was headed I was called a tin-foil hatter, funny, huh?

Postmodern Neomarxism crept into the LGBT community at around the time that the 'T' was changed from 'transsexual' to 'transgender'.

Peeps got suckered BIG TIME. Booking society on a massive guilt trip, they STOLE the narrative of truscum transsexuals like me (and I have spoken with many of them - and can assure you their notion of Gender Dysphoria is a fetish in itself with no basis in the harsh realities of actually living with it); they co-opted that narrative, twisted it and threw genuine transsexuals under the bus. Then they went after the Lesbians, and now they are after the women - and if you cave, it'll be men next - what do you think the whole 'toxic masculinity' trope is all about? That's just straight men that like to be straight.

It's the specious philosophy that on one hand would deny a working class woman the fair employment of being, say, an F1 grid girl - whist at one in the same time encouraging the notion of prostitution (sorry 'sex work') as being not only viable, but laudable.

Unhinged.

I'm a musician, and was about in the 80's; and there is a link there too - we no longer have a thriving collection of music based youth subcultures anymore - the music biz got neutered because they didn't want punk happening again - and all that natural, youthful rebellion and angst has been warped and weaponised by the Neomarxists - ALL teenagers 'hate their parents', and most of us grow out of it - no longer, that hatred is now stoked so high that kids abandon their families altogether and join the so-called 'glitter family'.

Personally I find the 10 year old drag queen 'Lactatia' quite the affront, grinding and twerking in front of an audience of mostly male, gay adults - for money. It's more akin to pimping IMHO, and I don't believe that these performances aren't fuelling some sordid sexual fantasies in the minds of certain onlookers.

In Afghanistan, it is custom to take effeminate young boys and dress them as girls to be passed about for sexual gratification - but heck, don't draw any allusions from that - cuz y'know - all cultures are equal.

Right?

This whole thing is a Neomarxist power grab - and when I say they are coming for your kids - it is the postmodernists I am talking about - and it is indoctrination and brainwashing that I am referring to.

Look for the APPROVED Youtube video of parents discussing masterbation with their own children and showing them dildos.

...and that was quite a while ago now... there is an absolute plethora of 'pedosexual' content on there, sickeningly.

Personally, I think that there's a beauty in the special wide eyed wonder of childhood - and that explicit sexual knowledge has no place in it. But the current music industry seems Hell bent on becoming ever more overtly pornographic with every passing year.

This current generation rift makes the so-called gap of the 1960's look positively paltry by comparison.

I realise Neoliberalism and Neomarxism appear to make peculiar bed-fellows - but the evidence is plain to see, and the movement to trans an entire generation and alienate them from their families is becoming a societal juggernaut.

The targeting of the very young is beyond nefarious.

This situation has seen me wholeheartedly abandon the Left as this seems to be their agenda now - and they couldn't care less about the working class - and their daughters.

Maybe i should just "shut up for the sake of diversity".

For those coming late to this game - understand that it's been going on for years - behind your backs; with express intent of driving so hard and so fast that by the time you wake up to what's going on - it would already be too late to stop it.

The tail wags the dog, and not only will women everywhere go under the bus - they'll reverse it back over you just to make sure.

I trust everyone has emailed their MP this morning? No?

OvaHere · 07/02/2018 10:44

I agree this thread has taken a bit of a strange direction since last night.

I found a lot of the earlier posts interesting and still do to some extent and whilst infamous is a very engaging writer I think they have over reached a bit for their audience - a feminism board on MN.

I don't think you are anything like a paid shill frogsoup. I'm sorry you feel uncomfortable.

That said I'm not fond of censorship of thoughts at a basic level because it's exactly what would be used against all the women here trying to get their voices heard against trans ideology. It's hard to know where a line should be drawn about what people can freely discuss.

Most humans are probably guilty of a bit of hypocrisy on this score depending on where your personal politics and opinions lie.

Justabunchofcunts · 07/02/2018 10:50

I agree in freedom of speech. I think some of the things infamous says make sense, others make no sense to me. I don't think IP threats are OK.

Has anyone else googled the suggested phrase above?

Justabunchofcunts · 07/02/2018 10:51

I also don't believe frogsoup appears to be a paid shill, I had similar thoughts and am certainly not one.

AngryAttackKittens · 07/02/2018 10:53

Yeah, I think Infamous should be able to say whatever he wants (as should everyone else), but should also expect disagreement and not respond with threats of doxxing. No censorship needed, just a respecting of some basic boundaries (disagreement fine, arguing fine, threats not acceptable).

infamousT · 07/02/2018 11:01

The IP thing was merely an expression of the fact that I am tech savvy - nothing more... it's been done to me and I consequently leave mine open as I am not hiding - this is my real name on here, and I am standing up to forces that have already targeted me for visceral personal abuse.

It's a high stakes game now - and I have enemies, and I am sure that people here shall attempt to smear me. It's nothing new.

Personally, I'm not bloody interested - that kind of stuff was all the rage 5 years ago, and is easily circumvented with any manner of cheap apps - it it worries you, get one. In fact - I'd recommend it.

My game is different - I am standing alone in front of a row of rainbow tanks.

You can judge me on one sentence blurted out in an irate way if you want. Makes no difference to me... personally I have far better things to do with my time to be arsed with all that cloak and dagger stuff. Which is why I do not hide my IP and use my real name.

This is a high stakes game. And I won't back down.

I make the point again - that in every single case of these people sweeping to power, people die.

120,000,000 last century.

My record is open for all watchers to examine - I've never Doxxed anyone - and never would - it's simply not my style... as having BEEN Doxxed and had delivered faeces I can assure you that it's only low-lifes that indulge in such infantile nonsense.

I was making a point - nothing more.

And with that - I think I'll sign out of this interesting little foray - I feel I've provided some food for thought, the rest is now up to you.

The clock is ticking.

Thank you for the overwhelming positive support, but I honestly don't think that I really have a right to be here... I'm not a Mum.

So, thanks all - take care, do your thing. Good luck.

GuardianLions · 07/02/2018 11:01

indeed somebody even apologised to the OP for my rudeness!!!

Hi FrogSoup that was me. I am aware that T was invited into this thread (and isn't actually the op) and also is not posting anonymously, so I think there is an unequal power dynamic going on. It feels rude to me when anonymous people start insulting a named person like that - it isn't really fair. Especially when they have experienced doxxing, faeces in the letterbox, etc. And you as MN regular are more familiar with what is culturally expected in this forum over T, who was invited in and I doubt had a chance to get familiar with the T&Cs. Though I obviously don't support threatening to find your IP address and am glad that has been taken down.

I know you have been freaked out by what has been said, but I think your censorious reaction wasn't polite, put it that way. But I find your take on things interesting and would appreciate you sharing it. I am not enjoying the combative "You're a nutter!", "Well you're a handmaid" kind of exchange helpful. It is wasting my brain. So I skim read those bits.

Traffig · 07/02/2018 11:09

@Frogsoup
So what do you think is happening? I'd be interested in your personal views, I might agree. I don't know what you believe though, just what you hate.

I've met good and decent people of all cultures and beliefs, as has everyone here I'm sure. I've also been the subject of vile hatred because of my own background.

The Manchester attack ( for example) was an extremist attack on the life style of young women and young(gay) men. The homeless person, the hero of the hour, has just gone down for six years for stealing from the dead and dying.

The Finsbury Park Mosque attack was an extremist attack against people quietly at prayer.

Going back...
I was nearby when the Admiral pub nail bomb went off in London in 1999 and the Brick Lane bombings too. Such interminable hatred of people who are different.

Currently, I am waiting to hear about the sentencing of Ethan Stables for an planned machete attack on a Gay Bar in Barrow.

The world around me seems to be full of people trying to close down debate, and beliefs and to kill and silence people for being different. I've lived with this all my life. It's about power and domination. Imo.

Tell me why YOU think these things happen?

As long as no one threatens the future of those I love, they can do what they like, say what they like and I will try and understand their viewpoints.

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