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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Lily Madigan has published an article.

492 replies

UpstartCrow · 01/02/2018 00:09

www.youngfabians.org.uk/transmisog

''100 years on since the first women got the vote, there are still inequalities in the feminist movement. Why are some feminists still failing transwomen?

The evidence is there if you look for it – Transphobic leaflets being given out in the safe zone at Labour annual conference; prominent party feminists suggesting violence against transwomen; someone being kicked out of a Labour Women’s Network party for harassing a teenage trans woman; fundraisers being started to try and legally challenge Labours trans-inclusive policies; transwomen being excluded from Labour run women’s events by a women’s officer. The list goes on.

Most state their actions aren’t transphobic at all, but they are merely seeking the protection of women’s spaces. Some go further, suggesting transwomen are men’s right activists working purposely to erode women’s hard won protects. They commonly misgender people like me as a means to belittle our experiences and score social media points. And so I think its fair we question how much authority they have as cis-women to decide whether they are being transphobic.''

It continues in this vein.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
23
Geronimoleapinglizards · 01/02/2018 17:17

The whole concept of the GRC baffles me. Whilst gender dysphoria might feel horrendous to live with, I cannot understand why there is a certificate formally confirming you have essentially changed sex when you can't do so.

I have never given it much thought because i've spent years only wishing trans people well. But really, if it's a mental health problem it makes no sense. I don't mean to be unkind in writing that because underneath all the furious fighting going on I know there are decent trans people who are simply trying to live peacefully. But a GRC is a lie

just5morepeas · 01/02/2018 17:20

Are comments still there? I can't see them on my kindle?

Collidascope · 01/02/2018 17:25

They are, just5.

My comment has vanished twice now. It doesn't even say it's been deleted, just vanishes mysteriously...

just5morepeas · 01/02/2018 17:27

Thanks, just be me then. I'll have to look later on my laptop.

SchrodingersFrilledLizard · 01/02/2018 17:30

I can't vote on comments, despite being registered with The Independent. Every time I try, I am re-routed to the login page.

DickTERFin · 01/02/2018 17:30

How do I comment? - I can't see any comments at all.

HomeTerf · 01/02/2018 17:34

Thanks for the link to the Times article ShotsFired I hadn't realised it was from November last year, but it's interesting to see how quickly everything seems to have moved since then especially with Lily's GRC I find that quite heartening - lots of people seem to be waking up to the smell of horseshit. The comments on the Independent piece are great. (And the deletions! Is Our Lil beginning to understand that you can't tell big fat lies in a national newspaper and get away with it?)

QuentinSummers · 01/02/2018 17:35

I think the same person wrote this article and the Dawn Butler article. I think Labour are having a big PR push to try to get the AWS/self I'D stuff shut down before tgeir conference in May. Bunch of idiots.
Linking Lily's Twitter was a bit of an own goal

DickTERFin · 01/02/2018 17:37

Anybody else, feel free to add my comment to the comments section that I have hitherto been unable to access.

MissMoneyPlant · 01/02/2018 17:54

To clarify, I was referring to borderline personality disorder in my earlier post.

And I was referring to people diagnosed with it, not people who "have" it. However you define that...

Either the whole conceptualistation of BPD is wrong, or a hell of a lot of people are being included under the BPD umbrella who don't actually fit the diagnosis.

SlightlyBefuddled I don't recognise the experiences of your friend in my own experiences or those I've spoken to who have been through the same thing. I'm not disagreeing with your interpretation of the situation, necessarily, but that's what I mean about the diagnosis encompassing so many different people!

And it's so subjective - eg "threats of suicide". I've been called "manipulative" for "threatening suicide", but I've not said "do xyz or i'll kill myself" or something, it's literally been me being honest about suicidal feelings. Which people are told to do.

I've been taught by psychiatry to be ashamed of feeling or needing anything, of not always putting others first. I was encouraged to believe everything was my fault and I was to blame of people treated me badly. I could have done with being pointed in the direction of the Freedom Programme. I've lost friends due to my issues, not because I'm some out of control bitch as the psychiatrists implied, but because a lot of people shrink away from other's pain, they don't know how to deal with a crying person or someone like me who dissociates from reality a bit, frozen in terror, and actually needs someone to sit there quietly with me and be reassuring for a bit. Would have been quite helpful not to have to live with assorted men including those threatening violence or trying to convince me to pay the rent in sex, too.

Just please, everyone reading this, be aware that psychiatric diagnoses can (and have been) used against women, so be careful if you want to start wielding them against others.

hipsterfun · 01/02/2018 17:56

Outrageous out-of-context quoting of what Bellos said about defending herself.

athingthateveryoneneeds · 01/02/2018 17:59

Looks like LM falsely claimed to have a GRC in the comments. How predictably disingenuous.

Datun · 01/02/2018 18:02

TransHobbit

I know you have to be over 18 to have a GRC. Can you start applying for it at, say 16?

spagbowl · 01/02/2018 18:03

What did Linda Bellos actually say and in what context? That's the 2nd time this week that LM has publicly described her as threatening violence.

Datun · 01/02/2018 18:10

The comments on the Independent article are very interesting.

The Independent has been fairly complacent in predicting comments.

A mainstream article like that isn't the twittersphere.

These are national newspaper readers.

You used to be able to put a spin on these pro trans articles, but people are now really waking up to what it means, how silence is being enforced and who, exactly, is pushing for the dismantlement of women's rights.

If transwomen are women is the very basis of your argument, you are absolutely going to get people challenging and denying that.

If that denial feels like hate speech and an incitement to violence, you're going to have to come up with a better argument.

SuburbanRhonda · 01/02/2018 18:10

From the comments:

Implying trans women are males is the height of misogyny and hatred in my book.

You need to get a better book.

Datun · 01/02/2018 18:11

... and, stop being so mean isn't it.

SuburbanRhonda · 01/02/2018 18:16

Neither is “Why can’t we all just be kind?”

PencilsInSpace · 01/02/2018 18:20

spagbowl Full video . She was speaking on the same panel as Maria Mac, the woman who was physically attacked at Speakers Corner and it was very obvious (to me at least) that what she meant was that she would defend herself in similar circumstances.

Lazylouse · 01/02/2018 18:44

I fight for women because I’m one of them.

So what has Lily done to fight for women? Nothing mentioned in that article.

SchrodingersFrilledLizard · 01/02/2018 18:44

Lily's comment has been deleted now.

Hah. Good.

Fekko · 01/02/2018 18:46

I fight [for] women because I’m not one [of them]

Better?

SchrodingersFrilledLizard · 01/02/2018 18:50

Lily has done bugger all for women.

Lazylouse · 01/02/2018 18:51

Perfect, gecko. Or Fekko as I was trying to type.

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