Andrew Marr asking gov minister "So is a trans woman a woman?"

[Payfrozen]

On TV now. He's interviewing Corbyn currently discussing housing.

Just posted on the 'Labour Against Transphobia' thread.

Did you see the brief discussion about The Times article? Isobel Oakshott managed to get is about transwoman and AWS before Andrew Marr changed the subject.

She is sympathetic to trans people but doesn't agree with allowing self identified trans women on AWS.

The raging TERF

Will pop over to other thread.
Will he challenge Corbyn.?

Seeing David Limmington squirm about what Andrew said was proposed gov policy on self ID was interesting.

I just saw that. I may have upset my right-on teenager with my robust response.

Liddington literally squirmed

Cognitive dissonance in action - totally stuck between knowledge, the law and common sense versus fear of being called transphobic.

Corbyn said he's willing to talk but

"Position of the party is that self identification is what is is"

Bloody hell

Corbyn couldn't have been clearer

And Corbyn has just said that he would be prepared to meet Linda Bellos to discuss the issues. Can this be arranged?

Right, I'm withdrawing my Labour Party membership!!

Corbyn wants to talk to Linda Bellos but believes self identified Transwomen are women.

Fuck you Corbyn

The offer of the meeting was patronising as far as I'm concerned and not a constructive offer. More "I'll meet her to let her know in no uncertain terms that she is wrong"

Aw I wanted him to be asked if self ID tans women are women

What exact element of 'the party' makes that decision, that self-ID is sufficient? Is it the NEC rather than the membership, or is it just enough people repeating it (which seems to be the case).

Andrew Marr just told him that Linda Bellos warned women will leave the party in the thousands. Corbyn just wants to talk to her, so basically Linda, accept this or fuck off.

So Labour women, we need to all just shit the fuck up and accept it.

So depressing

I’m a tory (don’t hate me ;) ) and it’s a very difficult issue for our party. Due to the mistakes we have made in the past (before I was able to vote I should add!) with gay rights and will people seeing the Tories as out of touch with the younger generation it’s hard to speak out against Trans rights.

I do believe that self ID is the wrong way to go, what happens if you want to change back? Can you do that too? There is so much grey area.

I also disagree with moving men to women’s prisons but we do have to find some sort of solution (separate wing in a men’s prison?)

My biggest concern is sport, women’s sport gets so little coverage and getting woman to particate in sport is not as easy as with men and allowing trans women to participate just doesn’t sit well with me.

Yep. Dear Leader just told us our place.

Perhaps I'm being dense here, but he mentioned about self ID trans women going through a process.

Isn't the point of self ID that there isn't much of a process?

Andrew Marr: is a transgender woman a woman?

Jeremy Corbyn: Yes

Well, shit.

It's just ridiculous, I'm not a party member, but I have voted labour in the past.

Never again.

I certainly don't hate you Leslie - we need an end to this ridiculous polarisation of politics with the left demonising Tories as baby eating monsters while the right demonises Labour voters as snowflakes who believe in magic money trees. (Thinking of which, did you see Ambrose Pritchard Evans' article in the Telegraph a couple of weeks back where he said "hang on a minute, theses are examples of a Labour-style publicly owned investment bank working in practice, it's not prima facie a daft idea"? For me as a lefty and then Labour party member - I've just cancelled my membership over the current issue - it was a real moment of WTAF did I just read in the Telegraph of all places I have a telegraph sub as part of a conscious decision not to live in a "bubble".)

And women's rights versus the transactivist "penises are lady penises if we say so" insanity is a real cross-party issue. Or should be.

*I’m a tory (don’t hate me ;) ) and it’s a very difficult issue for our party. Due to the mistakes we have made in the past (before I was able to vote I should add!) with gay rights and will people seeing the Tories as out of touch with the younger generation it’s hard to speak out against Trans rights.

I do believe that self ID is the wrong way to go, what happens if you want to change back? Can you do that too? There is so much grey area. *

Hi Leslie. This isn't a case of either/or. We already have a self ID system in that you can call yourself what the hell you want - I could change my name to Mr Fred Bloggs and no one could stop me. Most organisations also now allow 'Mx' as a title. What doesn't happen is that this has any legal meaning in terms of using single sex facilities.

You've neatly summed up what the Tories' problem is at the moment though - as I've said previously this was Justine Greening's baby and she was no doubt keen not to be seen as reactionary and May went along with it. But they've miscalculated. There are HUGE problems with allowing self identification when it comes to prisons, jobs that are legally single sex only, and single sex facilities and the press have got hold of this and are making hay with it, which is why I think the Tories will discreetly drop this. It's also in my opinion one reason why Greening went in the reshuffle, but that is just speculation.

Social media is a problem in this. A few people on twitter are being taken as representative of youth generally, with the additional problem of labour increasing its youth vote at the last election. I can't imagine the average person, of any age, buying into the stuff embraced by Labour now. They're moving closer and closer to the old style 'loony left' stuff that made them unelectable throughout the 80's. And I was a labour party member then, I wouldn't join now.

What would Dear Leader have said if the conversation had gone like this:

Marr: Is a transwoman a woman?
Corbyn: Yes
Marr: On the basis of self-identification, not gender reassignment?
Corbyn: Yes
Marr: That goes for all transgender women?
Corbyn: Yes, the feminists have nothing to fear.
Marr: Should Marie Dean, who broke into homes and masturbated into the knickers of the teenage girls who lived in them, and who was in possession of child pornography, 63 such offences in all, be transferred to a women's prison on the basis of self-identification?

Corbyn: TRANSPHOBE! YOU'RE GOING ON THE LIST!

or...

Corbyn: Er, er, er, er...

WHY DOES NOBODY EVER MAKE IT CLEAR? (Sorry to shout.)

Andrew Marr: is a transgender woman a woman?

Jeremy Corbyn: Yes

Might have peak transed a few people?

Haven’t watched it yet, recorded cos I’m having a leisurely brekkie cooked by DH (who’s a bit of a terf). So Marr asked is a trans woman a woman, but did he ask, and what is a woman? We’ll never know what Corbyn really believes on this subject because he can’t ever say. The only reason the LP did so well at the last election was because of the Youthquake. The that demographic are likely to be overwhelmingly in favour of Self ID. They’re are probably struggling to work out which group of voters it’s safest to piss off. Btw also interesting to see (DM) that Lily Madigan is claiming to be ‘only vaguely aware’ of that Stasi like hit list.