Break it down for me?

[TortiousTortoise]

Hi all, I am fairly new to the discussion on the impact that transwomen are having on women generally and I want to more fully understand the issues (been trying to talk to my husband about it and am struggling to articulate it).

I feel so awkward writing about this as I definitely don't want to come across as sounding horrible about transpeople, I just want to understand.

Also there are a lot of acronyms being thrown about. Can anyone help me out?

@Datun

Brilliant resources R0. Thank you! That's my reading sorted.

This has been an important thread of resources and information for many women new to the issues.

I hope this continues to be the case.

Link to our most recent story on trans widows voices

www.transwidowsvoices.org/our-voices

Uncommon ground article about trans widows and the spousal exit clause

t.co/H07qZUhDkR

Thanks R0. I look forward to watching that debate.

As a transwoman said in an interview by Benjamin Boyce, it's just all gaslighting.

Dr Em on forced teaming

uncommongroundmedia.com/forced-teaming-feminism-lgb-and-trans-rights

Francis Aaron

'Boys Will Be Girls'

"A rap song about transgenderism. The point: people are free to live their lives however they so desire, but biology cannot be overthrown."

twitter: twitter.com/FrancisAaronUK

If 'being a woman' amounts to a gender presentation - whatever that is, but it sounds like all those stereotypes - then perhaps I'm not a woman after all. And neither are a lot of people I see in our high street, nor are a lot of us posting on here.

Well quite. Loads of women don't perform femininity. Some do ad thats fine too of course. But it it comes down to 'gender presentation' then a great many women are not actually women, but men. Also where would that leave the transwomen who also do not perform femininity? We are told they are plentiful. So, the ones who do not go super feminine, are not actually women either, as they are more masculine so cannot possibly be women?

God, if it comes down to stereotypes (which I have never seen admitted before by anyone 'on that side', so thats a development) then I am neither man nor woman, am something inbetween. Or I am a woman one day, and a man the next I guess.

@ALittleBitofVitriol

Post deleted by MNHQ: Quotes deleted post

For goodness sake, someone literally quoted one of my posts on this thread, and when I looked I came across a long winded post that attempts to be an athoritative guide to what trans is that is based on an outdated and largely discredited 40 year old theory that has been torn apart in the subsequent peer reviewed literature. I don't think it's unreasonable to challenge that not least since it claims to be explaining why people like me exist. I thought this was a discussion board, not an anti-trans propaganda site.

mirandayardley.com/en/a-history-of-autogynephilia/

And here is also Miranda Yardley refuting the claim also made by jj that the Moser paper "debunks" autogynephilia.

https://medium.com/@mirandayardley/from-mosers-paper-which-shows-autogynephilia-in-93-of-women-9d9d16f147d2

BMJ Published 29 October 2018
'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
authors: Richard Byng, general practitioner and professor in primary care research, Susan Bewley, emeritus professor of obstetrics and women’s health, Damian Clifford, consultant liaison psychiatrist, Margaret McCartney, general practitioner and freelance writer
(extracts)
"A recent feature in The BMJ implied that new services are all that’s needed to improve transgender healthcare. Providing timely, sensitive services for all, including those who decide to not pursue treatment or detransition, is important. But the article did not question the steep rise in referrals of mainly young women or the potential harms of medical overdiagnosis and overtreatment" (continues)

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490.full?ijkey=6lX93kQA0lz5YoB&keytype=ref

previous thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles

@NRatched

If 'being a woman' amounts to a gender presentation - whatever that is, but it sounds like all those stereotypes - then perhaps I'm not a woman after all. And neither are a lot of people I see in our high street, nor are a lot of us posting on here.

Well quite. Loads of women don't perform femininity. Some do ad thats fine too of course. But it it comes down to 'gender presentation' then a great many women are not actually women, but men. Also where would that leave the transwomen who also do not perform femininity? We are told they are plentiful. So, the ones who do not go super feminine, are not actually women either, as they are more masculine so cannot possibly be women?

God, if it comes down to stereotypes (which I have never seen admitted before by anyone 'on that side', so thats a development) then I am neither man nor woman, am something inbetween. Or I am a woman one day, and a man the next I guess.

This is a very simplified view of gender which encompasses a huge spectrum of behaviours and indicators and which more importantly is imposed on us as well as performed by us. You are gendered, meaning that even people who've never met you make assumptions about your personality based on your name and pronouns. Gender is in our movements, our speech patterns, it influences our personalities from the day we are born and it is in almost every consumer and stylistic choice we make from a scent we might wear to our haircut. Gender is the social role allocated to us whether we want it or not, gender is why we might feel nervous walking down the street late at night, or why we might not give it a second thought. Gender is why women are paid less and more likely to be in certain professions. Whilst many people may not experience a gender identity, although clearly many do, and some people may be somewhat gender ambiguous in presentation, although it is rare that someone is completely ambiguous, we still have a socially imposed gender, based on our assumed or presenting sex whether we want it or not and very few manage to totally shake it off.

[quote Ereshkigalangcleg]And here is also Miranda Yardley refuting the claim also made by jj that the Moser paper "debunks" autogynephilia.

[[https://medium.com/@mirandayardley/from-mosers-paper-which-shows-autogynephilia-in-93-of-women-9d9d16f147d2]][/quote]
Oh yes, Miranda Yardley, the famous expert on sexology and Feminism with a rigorous academic background in, checks note, misogynist teenage heavy metal publications.

Great updates to this thread, thank you R0 and tinsel.

I find it really helpful to look back periodically and remind myself of all the hard work being done to preserve and strengthen the rights of women and girls ✊🏼

Are you perhaps a famous expert in sexology and feminism then, jj?

A useful book:
'TRANS: Exploring Gender Identity and Gender Dysphoria A Guide For Everyone including clinicians (Pulling the Trigger).'
Published February 2018
(Profits to a MH charity.)

The opening chapters by Dr Hakeem provide clear descriptions of sex, gender, sexuality, transsexualism, transvestism and autogynephilia etc.

There are then a series of essays from a range of different perspectives.

www.amazon.co.uk/TRANS-Exploring-Gender-Identity-Dysphoria/dp/1911246496?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Dr Az Hakeem:
Medicine MBBS : University College London
Fellow of The Royal College of Psychiatrists
CCST in Forensic Psychiatry
CCST in Psychotherapy
MSc Group Analysis

www.drazhakeem.com/about/

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Are you perhaps a famous expert in sexology and feminism then, jj?

Judith Butlers sock account but keep it under your hat.

Moving account of living with an AGP husband

Glinner interviewing Jennifer.

An AGP speaks

The Elephant in the Room by Sue Donym.

medium.com/@sue.donym1984/the-elephant-in-the-room-dc822144a81b

quillette.com/2019/11/06/what-is-autogynephilia-an-interview-with-dr-ray-blanchard/

gender is why we might feel nervous walking down the street late at night, or why we might not give it a second thought. Gender is why women are paid less and more likely to be in certain professions

Well I disagree on this totally. SEX is the reason we might feel nervous alone on a street. Men do not look and think 'oh that person is not feminine, so lets not attack her'. A fact sadly that confused some poor transman a while back, I remember it being discussed on here, they were raped, but told the rapist repeatedly that they were a man, but the attack continued. Even when women do not perform feiminity, its quite obvious they are women. So no, while I appreciate you explaining where you are coming from, I profoundly disagree..as it appears that 'gender' is being used (again) where sex is the answer.

10 Aug 2020
Sheila Jeffries speech:

'What is the Declaration on Women's Sex-Based Rights?'

Women's Human Rights Campaign (WHRC)

"Sheila Jeffreys, co-author of the declaration explains what the declaration of women's sex-based rights is. The history, its purpose and what the declaration hopes to achieve.

This clip is part of the launch of the Declaration in Spanish speaking countries."

For more information, visit: www.womensdeclaration.com

Diversion tactics that narcissists use to silence you.

thoughtcatalog.com/shahida-arabi/2016/06/20-diversion-tactics-highly-manipulative-narcissists-sociopaths-and-psychopaths-use-to-silence-you/

Ahh just clicked on here. Sorry all for my posts here, as this is meant to be an information thread, not one of thousands other that go back to the same things. Last post on here unless I have info to add..I think this might be quite relevant. People often as what about the transmen. Well.

medium.com/@jben9581/trans-men-and-non-binary-people-are-valid-too-317ff14174c9

Oddly, even when women decide to transition, they are still 'treat like women', in being that their needs are last