Break it down for me?

[TortiousTortoise]

Hi all, I am fairly new to the discussion on the impact that transwomen are having on women generally and I want to more fully understand the issues (been trying to talk to my husband about it and am struggling to articulate it).

I feel so awkward writing about this as I definitely don't want to come across as sounding horrible about transpeople, I just want to understand.

Also there are a lot of acronyms being thrown about. Can anyone help me out?

@334bu

So why are there so many selfies of transwomen in very sexualised inappropriate clothing all over social media?

Why are there so many selfies of all women in very sexualised inappropriate clothing all over social media?

Most of them are not in their fifties and sixties pretending to be schoolgirls.

@334bu

Most of them are not in their fifties and sixties pretending to be schoolgirls.

I don't think I'm going to tell you about fetlife. You'd be surprised what's out there.

But of course there are men, who identify as men who are turned on by crossdressing, but they are men, live as men and have no desire to change that.

And there are some trans women who have fantasies about having female bodies, although there's no clear evidence of the distinction Blanchard claims between gynephilic and androphilic trans women and a lot of what Blanchard called autogynephilia in a person who isn't trans would just be regarded as a normal sexuality. But the idea that trans women are either entirely motivated by sexual fetish, or are motivated by a desire to be more sexually attractive to men just hasn't really held out as a theory. Whatever trans is, it's clearly something much more complex than Blanchard proposes. It emerges in childhood for a start, and for those who do report a sexual element that often disappears completely post even just social transition or simply with age (which is not supposed to happen to paraphilias). Blanchard also fails to account for the phenomena of trans men.

Crossdressing males are considered to be transwomen by Stonewall.

jj1968
So what system would you devise to say which of those men are really women and should have access to women only spaces?
Is it 'the ones who say they are women'?

@334bu

Crossdressing males are considered to be transwomen by Stonewall.

No they aren't.

@Thelnebriati

jj1968 So what system would you devise to say which of those men are really women and should have access to women only spaces? Is it 'the ones who say they are women'?

Yes with a bit of common sense. That has been the system up until now and is the system in most comparable countries.

That could be considered transphobic jj. " Acceptance without exception" and all that.

No they aren't

www.stonewall.org.uk/what-does-trans-mean

It is on here. Cross dressers are included.

As there seems to be some misunderstanding of the definition of transwoman and who can be considered to be one could jj perhaps furnish us with a definition.

Like Sarah Pedersen said on Women's Hour, women do the research

At least we know one thing that defines transwomen : they are all members of the male sex class.

Jj you're grouping a very diverse group of males with very many different paths in life and to their trans status in one.

We know of transwomen who just want to get on with their lives with no fuss and we know of some who are clearly very mentally disturbed and have harmed others.

Just linking to a trans widow's experience:

www.transwidowsvoices.org/post/philomena-s-story-there-and-back-again

@FleetsumNLangCleg

No they aren't

www.stonewall.org.uk/what-does-trans-mean

It is on here. Cross dressers are included.

You seem to misunderstand what an umbrella term means. Crossdressers fall under the trans umbrella, as do trans women. That does not mean that crossdressers are trans women anymore than dalmations are wolves despite both falling under the category of dog

But of course there are men, who identify as men who are turned on by crossdressing, but they are men, live as men and have no desire to change that.

Until they do. Or as Debbie Hayton put it: There's an old joke in the community about transitioners who start out as occasional cross-dressers: “What’s the difference between a transvestite and a transsexual? About five years.”

For anyone tempted to report my post just now, I'd like to make it clear that that is a direct quote from the article by Debbie Hayton that I've linked to.

Some men cross-dress for sexual pleasure, and it can develop into a paraphilia.
What the hell are they doing under the Stonewall umbrella?!

So what is a "transwoman " jj ?

@NeurotrashWarrior

Jj you're grouping a very diverse group of males with very many different paths in life and to their trans status in one.

We know of transwomen who just want to get on with their lives with no fuss and we know of some who are clearly very mentally disturbed and have harmed others.

Just linking to a trans widow's experience:

www.transwidowsvoices.org/post/philomena-s-story-there-and-back-again

I'm not trying to lump everyone together but pointing out the AGP/HSTS theory is overly simplistic and not really helpful.

I think in the case of former partners of trans widows which is a term I really dislike btw it is possible that a trans women who has lived in denial with all the shame and self hate that comes from that may be more likely to develop fetishistic or compulsive behaviours. As I've said before, you want rid of trans widows, lets support young trans people and make an easy world for gender variant people of all kinds and then people won't end up deceiding themselves and others out of shame or fear of social rejection.

Odd one there jj.
You seem to misunderstand what an umbrella term means. Crossdressers fall under the trans umbrella, as do trans women. That does not mean that crossdressers are trans women

Cross dressers fall under the trans umbrella. They were men who transitioned into... what exactly? They were men. They now dress as women. How are people meant to classify them? Surely they are transgender, and certainly not trans men so...?

Every day's a school day.

lets support young trans people

I agree. We should give them adequate mental health support. Anyone who detests their body to the extent that they want to make major irreversible changes to it should be able to access therapy to help them to understand why they might feel that way, and if possible help them to accept their body the way it is.

We are failing those young people if we make someone who is physically healthy into a lifelong medical patient.

So what is your definition of a transwoman jj?

@334bu

So what is your definition of a transwoman jj?

Haven't we done this. Anybody who identifies as a woman, wants to be a woman, is going around being a woman, as far as I’m concerned, is a woman.

How do you identify as a woman, if you can't say what a woman is? Break it down for me, what are people who identify as a woman identifying with?

Haven't we done this. Anybody who identifies as a woman, wants to be a woman, is going around being a woman, as far as I’m concerned, is a woman.

How do you go around being a woman?