Wrong side of history

[LyraPotter]

Here is something I know to be true: those campaigning against trans rights will fail. Your money will be raised and spent and wasted. Your legal challenges will not succeed. Your relentless attempts to do injustice will fail. You are on the wrong side of history. Your children will grow up knowing better than you. You cannot stop progress. Your efforts are in vain.

And every time I'm proven right - every time a court judgment goes against you and every time a law protecting trans men and women is passed and every time equality is further enshrined in the laws of this country I am going to return to this thread for the pure and petty purpose of telling you I TOLD YOU SO.

I actually think they might be so stupid that when they printed their retraction they didn't realise it was a retraction. Like they couldn't see the difference between self-definition and having a GRC and thought they were actually just restating their position. That's the only way I can explain the events...

Is that possible? I mean obviously if Danielle Muscato then anything's possible but...

Thank you for the info about Jazz Jennings. I went and watched a few clips on her. It struck me that she comes across as a camp boy with long hair, I'm afraid. I watched a clip where she visited a doctor to talk about her bottom surgery. The doctor was saying Jazz had only 2 inches of (quite shockingly) underdeveloped penis. The doctor seemed quite taken aback tbh. He was also not impressed that another surgeon had told Jazz that what was left of the penis was suitable to construct a neovagina. He was adamant Jazz's only option was to use some colon.

I see now that Jazz has a binge-eating disorder and has recently gained 30 pounds and can't even have surgery until she's lost that. Someone commented online that castrated males are all hugely prone to weight gain so this is actually no surprise and she will struggle to lose it even without the eating disorder playing a part.

It makes me want to weep, it really does. Who thinks it's ok to have their child paraded on tv whilst a doctor discusses their stunted genitals? Where is Jazz's dignity?

And i agree some people live happy lives being asexual. But to willingly take your child's sexual function and to remove all choice? It's criminal.

But to willingly take your child's sexual function and to remove all choice? It's criminal.

Not only that. About a year ago, when jazz first came to my attention, I spent ages googling to try and find mention of gender dysphoria.

I found ONE mention of the term. You can imagine how much stuff is out there about him, but only one mention.

All the rest was about how jazz wanted to wear a tutu for ballet class, blah blah. Gender stereotyping.

Plus, his mother saying you don't remember what you said, but here is what you said. Sounded an awful lot like retrospective coaching.

I'm not sure how useful or logical it is to set any store by intuition. But my intuition is yelling.

Yes I saw a video saying Jazz had to be female because she loved dolls and pink and mermaids.

There was nothing more substantial than that.

Don't forget the soccer playing, Datun, Jazz wanted to (and I think did?) play soccer like girls in the US do

(It's my favourite, easy to understand example of how gender is a culural construct - being a football fan here is very much a male thing)

I wonder how that plays back into the thread a little while ago about women being habitually deprived of food in favour of the men of the house? Is it a form of natural selection? That it's more important for women to stay alive as they can only make one baby at a time (broadly speaking)

Women have bigger natural fat reserves . And of course when we get too thin to procreate, our periods stop so that we can't get pregnant anyway

I found ONE mention of the term. You can imagine how much stuff is out there about him, but only one mention.

A diagnosis of gender dysphoria can actually be made on stereotypes alone believe it or not. I was reading a twitter argument earlier today and some TRA had been arguing about puberty blockers not being used unless the child is actually 100% trans, and the person was saying, so what is trans. And the TRA posted this. Which is used as a benchmark for the diagnosis

twitter.com/KilgoreSprout/status/954042276254244864

The 5/7 part..could be entirely about sterotypes.

1. Preference for 'crossdressing'
2. Preference for 'cross sex roles' in make believe
3. Preference for 'cross sex' games and activities
4. Preference for friends of the other sex
5. Rejection of games and activities typical of assigned sex (which is surely the same as 3. Just worded differently?)

Thinking about me as a ten year old...

1. I lived in jeans and t shirts, usually boys clothes as they were nicer colours and i didn't get any curves until my late teens so they fitted better

2. I always wanted to be the knight, or the cowboy, as they had much more to do (sadly my long blonde hair relegated me to being the princess or other character who needed to be rescued)

3. I wasn't ever any good at football, but could ride my bike faster than any of my neighbours and was the best tree climber around

4. All of my friends bar 1 were boys for a short period

5. I loathes arts and crafts (terrible at them!) and never wanted to play with dolls and kitchens and things

Fuck, I'm trans

I met those 5, and also the distress over sexed body once puberty hit. Actually reading that thread was a bit odd for me because I seem to have exactly the same experience as the twitter user who was arguing against hormones. Stereotypically 'a boy' and also took a knife to my own breasts when they started getting me attention from grown men (and started making me be treat differently by male friends)...and was utterly freaked out by periods and found them horrific. If blockers had been an option, I would have taken them with both hands in an instant and fucked my life up.

Many of us older women would have been pressured to transition, had we been doing our adolescence in this time period, because of the way we played and doing well at maths.

I would have thought this extreme kind of behaviour (trying to cut off breasts) was rare, so it was strange to read someone with seemingly the exact same experiences as me.

I still have large scars to this day as it was certainly not an 'I want attention' type of self harm. I really really wanted rid of these horrible things that were destroying my life (at the time)

I’ve had a few conversations with my eldest daughter (12) on the back of their sex Ed talks in year 7 about this and if we’ve done nothing else right raising her then we did well raising her to be gender critical.
She meets an awful lot of the laughable criteria for being trans -she’s a gamer who plays as both male and female characters, her main interests are sci-fi and fantasy fiction, lives in shorts and t shirts, no interest in make up, passing interest in girly clothes (has one ‘going out’ outfit which is a sparkly top and leggings with pumps), most of her friends are boys.
She knows damned well she’s a girl and will argue till she’s blue in the face that girls can do all the things she likes to do and still just be her. Her friends are a sensible lot as are her teachers fortunately so I don’t expect any outside pressure on her to change.
She’s happy with that and long may she stay that way without someone telling her she’s in the wrong body or likes the wrong things.
Still scares me that it could happen though. Sometimes I wish I hadn’t dropped down this rabbit hole and actually started reading up on it in more detail. Peak trans can be a scary place when you have kids I think.
(Anybody who got to the end of that thank you. This has been weighing on me recently and I had to get it out)

Peak trans can be a scary place when you have kids I think.

For sure.

My kids are only 3 and 5. But both are fairly GNC already. Possibly due to me allowing them to do what they like regarding dressing up and toy choices. But it scares the shit out of me that someday they could be convinced they are actually the opposite sex due to their interests. And already one parents at DS nursery has commented on the fact that he choses princess outfits in dressup time (dressup time tends to be at the end of the day, right when parents are lining up to pick kids up..hence them knowing). They asked if I think he may be trans. I went down their fucking neck and I think they were very shocked at how strongly I responded. I have since found out that they went round other parents telling them how 'transphobic' I am but they got no takers for bitching as the other parents apparently agreed with me that its ridiculous to even use the term 'trans' when talking about 3 year olds.

Hopefully by the time mine hit senior school, this shit will be over and done with. But I hav an awful feeling theres another 5/10 years in this juggernaut yet. After which time the insanity of it all should be obvious and backpeddling will be happening en-masse. Once this generation of transkids have grown up and realised whats been done to them. It is only then, that this whole thing will be looked back on in a 'wtf were we thinking' kind of way. Like we view lobotmomies and PIE now.

I think it will carry on until the LGB stop propping up the T.

Lily Maynard has been quite loud about the LGB dropping the T recently and seeing how the T seems to being shitting all over them I can see why.
I hope we do see it in the same way as lobotomies in the future, it’s just sad that children’s lives will have been ruined by that point.
Using the term for young teens is bad enough but using it to describe a 3 year old is obscene! I don’t blame you for jumping down their throats!

I unfortunately think LGB is tied to the T for the forseeable future. Ruth Hunt will see to that. Add to this that it seems to be only lesbians who are affected by this...

It would take a large amount of transmen trying to pressure gay men into shagging people with vaginas, to see the gay community actually stand with lebians, I fear.

I'm with you, OP. I also don't think I've ever seen a single discussion on Mumsnet mention transmen, as if they don't exist.

I'm with you, OP. I also don't think I've ever seen a single discussion on Mumsnet mention transmen, as if they don't exist.

Absolute rubbish! Transmen are constantly mentioned on here - BECAUSE THEY ARE IGNORED BY THE TRANSACTIVIST MOVEMENT.

We spend a lot of time scratching our heads over it because the fools who buy into this ideology believe that transmen have male privilege so don't need affirmative action like TIMs do. We wonder how blind you have to be to not see that this means the penis people get preferential treatment over the vagina people within transactivism and that this is the same old sexism.

Why does every naysayer always have everything backwards? It's Alice through the bloody Looking Glass every single time.

southbound have you read the posts before yours or did you x post? I’m talking about my daughter, vicxy has spoken about her own experience and others have talked about how they would fit in this criteria.
I’m so new to this whole thing I keep having to google acronyms but even I can see that that trans men are discussed on here. Maybe not as much as tw but it’s still there.

To be women and to speak means that we are forever on the wrong side of HIStory. Thankfully we've reached a point that women know that it's time to focus on HERstory instead. Lyra, I hope you wake up before it's too late and you find yourself on the wrong side of OURstory.

southboundagain
I'm with you, OP. I also don't think I've ever seen a single discussion on Mumsnet mention transmen, as if they don't exist.

An advanced search for 'transmen' turned up 500 results.

www.mumsnet.com/SearchArch?mustmatch=transmen&dontmatch=&nickname=&src_displ_option=s_m_d_m&fromDate=&toDate=18%2F01%2F18&topicmode=All&availtops=-1

An advanced search for 'transmen' turned up 500 results.

Also currently a 200+ post thread on transmen on the AIBU front page right now.

Transwomen are discussed more frequently as..well as this is the feminism section, feminists are all about womens rights. And womens rights are being threatened by transactivists and their likes. Ontop of this, near every media story is about transwomen, transwomens voices are louder, it is transwomen (or rather, people claiming to be transwomen) who are pressuring young lesbians into sucking ladydick, and a cultlike mantra does not seem to exist for transmen, its all 'transwomen are women!' So yes, transwomen are discussed more often.

To say they are never discussed is really quite ridiculous.

Why does every naysayer always have everything backwards?
They are using the abuser tactics of DARVO. Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim And Offender.
I do not know if all trans activists are abusive authoritarians but they are using the well documented tactics and tools of the abuser.

circle jerk

Funny, isn't it it, we don't even need to see or hear some men to KNOW they are men.

Hey OP. Give it up. You can't persuade, entreat, bully or threaten women into giving up their rights. Women are defending ourselves against a bunch of sexist, woman-hating men who are trying to push us around, tell us who we are and what we are allowed to do.

Dude, this fight isnt new to us. We've been doing this for milennia. You think you're the first bloke to think he gets to browbeat women into doing what a man wants?

Sit back, smallfry. Women are talking.

They are using the abuser tactics of DARVO. Deny, Accuse, Reverse Victim And Offender.

Thank you. That's perfect.

I think I might take a couple days off the internet. I can feel my posts becoming more intemperate as my frustration is at rage monster levels. Not helpful!