Labour party invents new bollocks made-up non-existent definition for woman

[pisacake]

labour.org.uk/members/get-involved/national-youth-elections-2018/

Sixteen uses of the word 'self-defining woman'. Zero uses of 'female', 'biology', or plain 'woman'.

'Woman' is now literally meaningless. A woman can be a bog-standard heterosexual teenage male (Lily Madigan), if he says so.

And obviously with half the places reserved for 'self-defining women' (not 'women', 'self-defining women'), then there's not really any reason why men wouldn't define themselves a women, is there?

If misogynistic shits like Lily Madigan can 'self-define as a woman', well ALL men are women, aren't they?

The whole bloody human race is 'self-defined women'.

Stupid Labour.

They can only estimate. It depends on if you consider transgender an umbrella term that covers everyone who questions their identity or feels uncomfortable with the gender roles assigned them by their culture or only count people who surgically transition.

I suppose that's the nub of it. People who feel trapped in their bodies are one thing, people who reject gender norms are another. Surely it's healthier to widen the 'norms' associated with gender than to accept that someone 'changes gender' because they don't conform to the existing norms.

feels uncomfortable with the gender roles assigned them by their culture

Surely this would be at the very least 50% of women. Maybe close to 100%

I just looked at #peaktrans.

OMG - 'reverse rape'

It's actually worse than you think it's going to be from the title

"My Male cat has been neutered. Does that mean he now, in (trans)theory, identifies as a she? Should I change his name? "

I think this means you ought to call him "they", and spend a lot of time explaining that you only mean one cat.

"Not that this seems to trouble many legal minds. The Obama Administration decreed that 'gender identity' was equivalent to 'sex' for the purposes of Title IX, even though such an interpretation rendered Title IX meaningless. This was upheld by a US district court in the Gavin Grimm case (teenage girl who wanted to use male bathrooms at school), and was set to go to the Supreme Court before the Trump Administration overturned the original directive. Bizarrely, it might well have even been upheld by the Supreme Court, even though it is completely legally incoherent. "

When TRAs throw out cases like this as examples we need to come back with ones like Lila Perry with his erection clearly visible underneath his miniskirt in TV interviews and the girls in his class quite understandably objecting to having his pantsless in public self in their changing rooms. The cases being taken to the ACLU in the US mostly involve trans boys for a reason - everyone knows they're really girls and would find bit silly for the boys to be scared of them (though imo the boys also deserve privacy when they're naked and we have to make it clear that we support that for strategic as well as ethical reasons). Allowing TRAs to present the issue in schools as mostly young butch girls who want to pee in the boys toilets steers public opinion away from the issue of girls being forced to be naked around male classmates, which is both the bigger issue and the one where there's likely to be more public support for the gendercrit position.

Not good reading: Clive Lewis on twitter.

@RWHwriter
You need to listen to women on this Clive.

@labourlewis
I have. And I don’t like bigotry whichever sex is indulging in it.Clive Lewis added,

Someone just said in support of Clive that she'd been on two women-only shortlists and there'd been transwomen on each. Well okay but aren't people with sexual dysphoria a tiny percentage of the population? Why are we seeing so many contending women-only shortlists?

MNHQ please just delete woman10017 s post and not the thread. It wouldn't be fair to everyone else otherwise.

Surely they only delete the whole thread if the thread is started with the link in the OP? Would seem extremely silly if they were to delete any thread with any mention of the link, as then people could just go thread to thread posting it, to get threads deleted!

It seems twitter links discussing the campaign are fine as they are not direct links to gofundme. I would like MN to claifiy this actually as I don't want to get into trouble over the next few days for discussing it and using twitter links.

@NotTerfNorCis I should have checked that figure before posting. Estimates as of 8 years ago were between 300,000 and 500,000 and that covers anyone with some kind of 'gender variance'.

Ah ok, so with my poor maths skills I reckon that's up to 0.8% of the population, but it means more than sexual dysphoria - could mean 'non-binary' etc.

Cake Are Transmen violent and aggressive to feminists?

I’m in a number of fb breastfeeding groups and consider myself fairly active in the area of peer to peer breastfeeding support.

Trans men certainly are vocal and aggressive in such groups. Gender critical voices are removed / deleted with alarming speed. Periodically it is raised as a topic - a picture of a ‘man’ ‘chestfeeding’; a long post about the struggles of transmen in experiencing pregnancy; etc etc. We are all expected to be handmaidens and fall over ourselves proclaiming how much we admire and respect transmen.

I spend a lot of time and energy in trying to strike a balance between refusing to be a handmaiden but not being so gender critical that I get excluded. From groups that are only required in the first place because female biology is different to male biology! But if I went with stating that as an obvious fact I’d be rapidly blacklisted.

So yes, transmen can be dominating and aggressive towards feminists in female spaces.

Why are we seeing so many contending women-only shortlists?

Because Brighton. Very strong support there for the Green party which infamously referred to women as 'non-males'.

So yes, transmen can be dominating and aggressive towards feminists in female spaces.

I don't think this is too shocking really given transpeople in general kind of seem to shut themselves off from the real world and exist in closed groups on the likes of reddit. They are surrounded by transactivists and the likes, in a little bubble where any critical voices are immediately silenced. Also testosterone..and passing as a man..would likely change a lot of peoples attitudes, though I don't think you can fully undo female (or male) socialization. On top of this, transmen are under intense pressure to shout over feminists on topics such as changing rooms and sex segregated areas. I read one transmans account of how they did not want to use the mens room as they felt they were indanger as a female person using male areas, but they felt they should use them, and be very vocal about it, in order to support transowmen in their struggles

Having said all of this, the transmen I do know, are very reserved and quiet and would not dream of shouting over someone else to be heard. Most of them were simply lesbians before this new trend, and now they are on testosterone and such.I do worry a lot that they will regret this whole thing, and it will be too late to reverse. One of the transmen I know has never actually seen a GP about it all and simply buys testosterone off the internet. So that will end well I am sure. She was raped fairly shortly before deciding she is actually a man, I am positive this has something to do with her decision but she is not a close friend so I don't feel comfortable broaching the topic with her, and honestly, I am not a trained professional anyway, its a professional she clearly needs.

ffs Clive Lewis. Someone should ask him: “ok, if you’ve listened to women, can you tell us what the feminist argument against this is? Not just “it’s bigotry!” - can you summarise what it is these feminists are actually saying?”

Long time Labour Voter from a family of staunch Labour voter. My lovely old Dad is completely confused about this "frenzy" (he calls it).

They're casting an appeal for the youth vote and throwing women's rights under the bus. It's glaringly obvious that they don't give a shit for Women's rights.

They've lost 8 voters here. Never again Labour, never again. What a let down.

I will ask for the campaign link to be deleted; didn't realise you weren't supposed to. Sorry folks.

Lewis on twitter also inelegantly conflates race and sex too. in another post.

This is fascinating; I only came to this debate through these great threads. I can see that the SWP and perhaps some other players are firmly in charge.

I imagine the legal challenge will succeed; which is why they are trying so hard to take it down.

A bit like the Article 50 challenge to brexit.

But to see the labour party for which so many millions of us fought for a century or more reduced to little more than the 'cult' that its opponents have called it is truly eye opening.

They have united british feminists more than ever before, and as so many of us are doing this for our daughters, and our sons ( for different reasons, obviously), I have a feeling we will be gaining more feminist young people than we lose. Especially with absolute stars like Magdalen Berns in the game.

I am still reeling from a labour mp insulting feminists like that though.

Lewis did have 'previous'.

We live and learn.

Surely it's healthier to widen the 'norms' associated with gender than to accept that someone 'changes gender' because they don't conform to the existing norms.

In a nutshell.

I am always amazed when people, mostly men, speak as though they do not know the difference between a social construct like race and an observable reality like sex. Stupid, or lying?

Calling women who refuse to submit to male dominance bigots is just the latest in a long history of pejoratives.

I just think it's sad that we can't unite against common and proven enemies of women and progress and instead we turn on each other.

Transwomen activists and their handmaidens have become enemies of women by telling us that we are now redefined to include them. Our rights as women that only biological women can reconcile with are being eroded rapidly at a frightening pace. We must now move over for the 'new and better' woman.

And this is only the tip of the iceberg. Part of the great big fucking iceberg is the fact that we are endangering women and children because once this madness becomes enshrined in law, any man can enter women's safe spaces and no one can stop that.

Next time some bloke catches your attention for some unexplained reason, wandering into a girls changing room where you've just ushered your daughter into to change for her swimming lesson, there's fuck-all you can do about it. Think about all those spaces we take for granted - changing cubicles in shops, hospital wards, toilets in public transport depots ad nauseam where we know that there is an accepted level of safety because other girls and women and Mums are there and we shoo our capable daughters into them, there will be nothing we can do to stop men from entering AND YES
BEFORE SOMEONE JUMPS ON ME, OF COURSE THERE ARE DECENT FUCKING MEN, but there are too many indecent predatory men who will totally take advantage of this madness.

I'm too angry to link but look for yourselves.

I realise, apart from one or two, that I am preaching to the peaked already but I am so utterly sick of this frenzied madness.

Wasn't there a thread on here suggesting a Woman's Liberation Party? Should we all try to do something along those lines? It is really disheartening to feel there is no one to vote for.

This! With bells on.
So far, what MP, male
OR female, has publicly denounced this madness? Who, in positions of power, is willing to stick their head above the parapet? They will have not only my vote, but my money and my time. I, and countless others will campaign. I bloody will and all.

Jennifer James Garston and Halewood CLP
Anne Ruzylo Bexhill and Battle CLP
Dr. Viv Pointon Derby South CLP
Emma Salmon Bexhill and Battle CLP
Suzanne Weaver Stroud CLP
Pilgrim Tucker Vauxhall CLP
Christine Bayliss Bexhill and Battle CLP
Venice Allan Lewisham Deptford CLP
Samantha Marshall-Cameron. Sheffield Central CLP

Have denounced this madness, which is why there is a campaign to take the point through the courts. And I for one hope they get the best lawyer they can afford.