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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Celebrating being female

163 replies

Redonionricedpotato · 10/01/2018 10:30

Feeling quite despondent about the state of the world and how tough it can be to be female in 2018. So I thought I’d start a positive thread, to remind myself of all the positive things about being female. What are yours? Doesn’t matter if they seem trivial, please share!

OP posts:
badabing36 · 12/01/2018 14:37

What a wonderful post glittery so moving Flowers

LangCleg · 12/01/2018 14:45

There was an interesting discussion on Twitter yesterday tangential to this between 4th Wave Now and Penny White. They were talking about population averages and that women tend to choose working with people more than working with things. But professions in which you work with people pay less and have less social cachet than professions in which you work with things.

The overall topic is really why a patriarchal society would value certain things - not just pregnancy and childbirth, but certain jobs and lots of other stuff - above other things.

As I said earlier, I don't think this debate is about individual choices by individual women or even about infertility of some women. The point is that gestating a child is something women as a class can do, which men as a class cannot do. So why do we often put down women who assert that pregnancy and childbirth is the defining achievement in their lives by telling them there's so much more to life than that? Because society is patriarchal and capitalist and it values successful careers and wealth above the thing that only women as a class can do.

I mean, I've had two children. But I didn't find pregnancy empowering or delightful at all. I hated it for the entire 9 months and, had anyone told me I should be full of joy and spiritual power, I'd probably have thrown something at them. And I didn't do the early childcare either - my husband was a SAHD for 6 years, until the youngest started school. That happened to work for us a couple. But the fact remains that my body, as a woman's body, was capable of something my husband's body, as a male body, was not. Gestating a fully-formed human being is - whether any particular individual enjoys it or not, or has fertility issues or not - something rather amazing and something that should confer status and empowerment on all women, as a class, whether or not they actually do it. A non-patriarchal society would do that.

BeyondWW · 12/01/2018 14:59

That’s a lovely post glittery, I’m sorry for your losses Flowers

Boldly, yy to the bit about breastfeeding. And it ties into Lang’s bit about capitalist society - women are expected to get back to work ASAP as that’s what “successful” people do. Except that “success” is judged on what the patriarchy views as successful, it undermines women’s natural biology.

OlennasWimple · 12/01/2018 15:02

Brilliant post, Glittery

geekaMaxima · 12/01/2018 16:12

I totally agree about the "psychic roar" thing immediately following childbirth. It was like: holy shit, I can't believe my body just did that! All by itself!

I knew in theory how female biology worked to birth a baby. (I'm a scientist, so I knew the theory in some obscure biological detail and was mildly alarmed about the gaps in medical knowledge of how childbirth works...!) but until I experienced my body doing these things, I didn't really get it.

I didn't understand how truly powerful contractions are: how magnificently strong are the uterine muscles, how their action is all-consuming so the whole body works to optimise them, and how yet how delicately they manage to push and turn and push a baby out safely.

I didn't understand what maternal instinct was in humans: how such a primeval urge could apply to a modern woman, how a brand-new mother could be utterly and fiercely protective of her offspring from the moment of giving birth, to the point where it feels a bit wrong to hand the baby over to anyone (even the father or the midwife for checkup).

I didn't understand what it was for my body to do something well: after a lifetime of asthma and not being good at sport, after difficulties conceiving, after a tough pregnancy with awful hyperemesis, how much awe I would feel that my body could successfully open itself up, deliver a new human into the outside world, and close itself up again.

The world flipped on its axis for me when I gave birth. I now regard female biology with awe.

HemlockSpartacus · 12/01/2018 16:18

glittery That was an incredibly moving post, I'm sorry for your loss, thank you for sharing that with us Flowers

pallisers · 12/01/2018 16:33

Great thread.

My daughter is doing a research paper for her history class and is thinking of doing it about the role of women in the abolitionist movement in the US. One of the things that struck me was how these women - both in US and UK - lacked the vote, had no political power and yet devoted themselves to righting a terrible wrong.

The slogan/logo of the female abolitionists "Am I Not A Woman and A Sister?" sums it up for me. Women, perhaps because of their near-universal historical oppression, have reserves of empathy, striving toward justice, and fellow-feeling that are truly inspirational.

boldlygoingsomewhere · 12/01/2018 17:20

glittery, that was very moving. Thank you for sharing it. Flowers

QuentinSummers · 12/01/2018 22:39

glittery Flowers
This is another good point. That women who have stillbirths, neonatal death or late miscarriages feel they aren't really mothers. It does a huge disservice to them and to their babies.
And also it annoys me that when women have been through something as traumatic as that, the societal pressure is to view it as taboo, don't talk about It, you weren't really a mother Angry
I have family and very close friends who have been through it and I have seen those women try to rationalise why they shouldn't be upset. Fuck that. Really. Just fuck it.

BarrackerBarmer · 12/01/2018 23:54

Beautiful post glittery Flowers

PricklyBall · 13/01/2018 00:01

Flowers glittery.

I too wasn't that keen on pregnancy - very much a somewhat uncomfortable means to an end. But I remember part way through catching a bit of a radio programme about computing, and how researchers were hoping to simulate one lobe of a monkey brain using the latest huge supercomputer for however many scores of millions of quid and thinking "I am making a whole human brain on approximately the extra calories of one Mars Bar a day!" and just being blown away by that thought.

LeCroissant · 13/01/2018 17:26

This is a wonderful thread - thank you to the posters who wrote such beautiful messages.

I can't write anything as eloquent. I also felt incredibly powerful after the birth of both my children. I remember holding my first, my son, close to my face and he breathed on me. It was a totally surreal moment - it hit me that this was a real life person, that his life on earth had just begun, that he was breathing and that he had just come out of my body - it was so odd and amazing I couldn't really compute it. I felt exactly the same way when my DD was born - amazed all over again at this new person that had grown in me and that I had endured hours of agony to bring into the world.

Related to that feeling is another aspect of femaleness that others have mentioned - the mindblowing resilience that women have, the ability to just get on with things, to keep stepping forward, often with a smile and a kind word, even in incredibly difficult circumstances.

What has struck me since becoming a mother is the way in which men view so many aspects of life as optional - if they are tired, not interested, don't particularly value it, they just won't do it. That includes things like keeping a home habitable, taking good care of children, maintaining strong family relationships - things that make life comfortable, enjoyable and meaningful. They will just opt out of them and expect other people to do them on their behalf or just let their lives/social relationships fall apart. Women, in the meantime, juggle three million things and make sure everything is done no matter what. They'll be there washing uniform at 11pm having not sat down for 12 hours because they will not under any circumstances see their children go to school in dirty clothes, no matter how tired they are, no matter how much they'd like a rest. They'll then do a meal plan because they want to stick to the budget so they can all have a holiday and they want the children to eat well. Then they'll make the packed lunches so the morning will go more smoothly. Then they'll write a note to respond to that party invitation. All while a man has just checked out and is ignoring all those details.

Exhausting as all that is, and difficult as it is for women at the time I genuinely think, as another poster has mentioned, women reap the rewards of their hard work later in life. While men get more isolated, more disgruntled and purposeless as they get older, women benefit from the years and years of groundwork they've put in to building strong relationships with their children, friends and family, years of being able to cope and organise and get on with things. Some men get to 50 not being able to run a house at all while women have not only run a house for the last 20 years but also worked and raised children. In many of the older couples that I know the woman is a truly impressive person who has achieved a monumental amount (very little of it valued monetarily or otherwise by soceity) while the man has earned a lot of money but is essentially a burden to everyone around him. Men lose out in the end. Big time.

Equally, professionally, I think a lot of women end up dropping out of careers not just because of the double load of childcare/housework and paid work, but because they can't see the value in continuing to play the game that many men play in business, which is to try to big yourself up while doing the minimum amount of actual valuable work. Many women in banking, for example, get to a certain point and think 'what the fuck am I wasting my life on this shit for'? because being top dog and stomping on competitors holds no intrinsic value for them - they just don't see the point in spend 12 hours a day doing such meaningless 'work.' I think men often don't like having women in the workplace because women come along and say 'what the fuck are you actually achieving. Women get things done, real things, things that matter, like tending to that screaming baby 10 times in a night. In comparison, polluting oceans and getting people in debt seems a pretty poor offer in terms of legacy.

Niskasrevenge · 13/01/2018 18:04

I am a woman. I am capable of menstruation (but found it inconvenient and therefore have always used the pill to prevent myself having periods). I am - or was - likely capable of getting pregnant and giving birth. But I don't like children and have never felt vaguely interested in having one. (I'm mid-40s now.) I have a vagina, but I haven't engaged in PIV sex with men for many, many years. It really wasn't for me.

I have lived the life of the mind, giving all of my energy to my writing and research career. I have focused on getting to the top of my profession, on financial independence, on spending time with people who interest me, on spending my money on things I enjoy.

When women use the line: "you can't know real love until you've had a child", I totally believe them. I don't doubt for a minute that I'm missing out on an experience of intense love and empathy and connectedness, and all the rest of it; but I have no desire whatsoever for those experiences. I don't even have a pet, despite liking animals, as I don't want to be responsible for anyone other than myself. The thought of someone/thing being 100% dependent on me feels suffocating and oppressive. (None of this means I look down in any way on women who do want things I can't even imagine. It is just other to me.)

So I am afraid I can genuinely come up with no positive things about being a woman, only a few bodily inconveniences that I do my best to minimize. All my dearest memories and greatest achievements could have been lived with any genital / hormonal configuration!

But I don't for a minute deny I am a woman. I do not buy into genderism and assume that my selfishness, competitiveness, lack of interest in children, lack of empathy, and lack of willingness to be a caregiver mean that I am really a "man trapped in a woman's body"! I will campaign alongside mothers for the rights of those of us with female biology as I am fully aware that the patriarchy sees me as a member of the sex class and that I am as vulnerable as any other woman to female-specific harm. But I think there is a slight risk that other women who have lived like me will not feel similarly. I can see how transgender ideology (especially the non-binary, agender versions) might speak to women like me (especially younger women), as the narratives of feelings of power through female bodily experiences and the tendency to elide the woman-mother distinction in so much feminist discourse are, personally speaking, not relatable.

Thermostatpolice · 13/01/2018 18:49

I found that a really interesting perspective Niskasrevenge. Thank you.

BarrackerBarmer · 13/01/2018 18:49

Brilliant post Niskasrevenge

Having posted a "female biology" type post myself doesn't mean I consider other achievements to be lesser or meaningless. We all have a million achievements that are not related specifically to our sex.
What strikes me about your post is how every one of your incredible achievements will have been hard won, against an undercurrent of sexism pulling women one way, and pushing men the other.

Like that quote about Ginger Rogers getting less credit than Fred Astaire, despite doing everything he did, only backwards and in heels.

Thermostatpolice · 13/01/2018 18:52

Thank you also glittery. I'm sorry for your losses Flowers

Batteriesallgone · 13/01/2018 19:05

Equally, professionally, I think a lot of women end up dropping out of careers not just because of the double load of childcare/housework and paid work, but because they can't see the value in continuing to play the game that many men play in business, which is to try to big yourself up while doing the minimum amount of actual valuable work. Many women in banking, for example, get to a certain point and think 'what the fuck am I wasting my life on this shit for'?

So true.

Agerbilatemycardigan · 13/01/2018 19:19

Oprah Winfrey did have a child lemons when she was a teenager.

GuardianLions · 13/01/2018 19:37

Lots of love to you Glittery - you so accurately describe the feeling "everything in me was screaming that I had to be where the baby was".

I know that feeling in part when I had to hand mine over to scbu. It makes me feel such a deep connection to women who have lost babies or mc. I had no idea about it before having children. Flowers

But Niskas I also totally get what you are saying. And you are right about how at times "someone/thing being 100% dependent on me feels suffocating and oppressive." The bizarre thing about motherhood for me is - despite not being that into kids, especially babies beforehand (eg finding babies crying on the bus really annoying), motherhood changed me - sort of flooded with love - hormones maybe - (oxytocin?), which helps me through the mega-clingy phases where I can't even go to the toilet without "muuu-uum!" and also gave me that impetus croissant talks about to "be there washing uniform at 11pm having not sat down for 12 hours because [I] will not under any circumstances see their children go to school in dirty clothes, no matter how tired [I am], no matter how much [I'd] like a rest." I can completely understand though, how it isn't an attractive prospect and some women want to opt out of it.

But if no women gave birth, then none of us would be here now. Even if we don't want to or can't be mothers or we don't want to be defined by it, it is worth remembering that we all owe our lives to women. And our biological-women-birthed life is definitely worth celebrating women for.

Niskasrevenge · 13/01/2018 19:54

I am certainly grateful to my feminist foremothers who fought to gain for women the rights to opt out of some life experiences that, to me, would be intolerable, and to opt into others that have given me so much satisfaction.

Not so sure I think the human race really needs to be carried on, though. The planet and other species might well do better without us. But that's another debate for another day.

GuardianLions · 13/01/2018 20:34

That sounds a bit like the Generation X nihilism that I am so glad have got away from Grin

Kids are getting taught a lot of eco-awareness at school these days and I think with the right education and parenting there is real hope for the world and future for the human race (and all the other species) Smile

And human beings are completely fucking amazing too - along with our highly evolved technology and culture - and how amazing that you have a life of the mind - a career of writing and research! The only species able to do that!

Niskasrevenge · 13/01/2018 20:37

I like and respect the indefatigably optimistic cut of your jib in the face of my curmudgeonliness about people, Guardian. Wink

GuardianLions · 13/01/2018 20:41
Smile
Annwithnoe · 14/01/2018 18:45

I never post in feminism because I feel so inarticulate compared to you lot Smile but I want to add my bit here:

I absolutely resonate to the psychic roar. Giving birth for me was a primeval experience and afterwards I felt like a goddess of femininity. I was a bit taken aback that DH wasn’t as impressed with my post-birth body Grin

However, when I think of the women I’ve admired across my lifetime, apart from my amazing mother and grandmother there are two lesbian couples that stand out for me. One was my aunt and her partner who were just amazing, articulate, wonderful, clever, warm people who lived an entirely different kind of life which seemed so peaceful and respectful. And the other couple are/were Katherine Zappone and her partner Ann Louise Gillian who did the most amazing work educating the women of Tallaght, Dublin. Their intuitive grasp of the feminine energy shone through in the centre they created.

I’ve often thought it ironic that so many cultures and religions create rituals to mark the stages of life that mimic so closely the natural stages of a woman’s life. Boys are “initiated” into manhood by a ritualistic blood letting (menses) or painful ordeal (birth). Monks wake at night to pray (feed babies) or keep vigil all night (nursing sick children through the night)....etc

I’ve also long suspected that the Judeo-Christian tradition got the story of Adam and Eve backwards, that woman was created in the image and likeness of God the Creator and man, with his protective strength was the helpmeet.

BarrackerBarmer · 14/01/2018 20:37

Well that was a cracking first post in feminism then Annwithnoe!