First openly transgender woman in British Vogue Celebrating 100 years since women have been given the vote

[speakout]

"Look how far we have come" says Paris Lees in a feature celebrating 100 years since women have had the right to vote in the UK.

Em except - your sex have always had the right to vote.

Or am I missing something?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42572561

AbsintheFriends
I feel your pain. My 30 year old ds called me transphobic today. He just changed the subject when I began to explain why I wasnt. So hurtful.

Thanks for that Irk and speakout - really appreciated. It kind of feels wrong to let it go, but I know now that I really have to. Interestingly, my 21 yr old is also much more enlightened, which could be down to a bit of extra maturity but I think is also due to being just about old enough to have missed the stranglehold social media seems to have on the minds of those who became teens a few years later. They seem to be terrified to stray from the groupthink script.

One of my closest friends thinks I’m a transphobe. The one time I did try to talk to her about it she just parroted trans women are women at me over and over again. So I won’t bother discussing it again.

Sorry - missed your post nineteenagain!

I guess that disproves the theory that it's the younger kids who are unwilling to listen to reason. So sorry it's happening to you too. What a mess.

groupthink script

Yes it's powerful.

It's actually not that important for me to have all those close to me agree with my way of thinking. Most haven't given it much thought, many are not interested in feminism. My views are motivated by my own interests and attitudes.
Other people- even nearest and dearest have other eggs to fry.

This is a subject that I wouldn't discuss with my OH for instance, his background and mindset are quite different to mine an I know the subject may cause more strife than agreement.
So I don't broach.
Bu that's fine, there are lots of private mind spaces that I keep to myself.

absinthefriends I cant discuss it with my teenage girls either. Strong feminists but they have fallen for it hook, line and sinker at the moment. The younger one even cried at my ‘transphobia’
Incredibly frustrating, I’m hoping with maturity and articles like the smear test nurse the other day, they will one day see. In fact, I don’t have many people to discuss with irl- my two close friends and DH agree with me in theory but don’t see any dangers ahead. I have one medical (psych) friend who agrees it’s a worry but darent go against the grain at the moment.

It's great to see younger women like you seeing this for what it is, Delete.

Thank you. I don't know how anyone can see things differently once they know all the facts. Unfortunately some people don't want facts and would rather shut their ears and live in "men can be women and women can be men" fantasy land.

Just read Paris Lees on Twitter Paris is saying

Bad luck all those claiming Paris isn’t a real women it doesn’t matter Paris looks amazing and it’s gone to press (so claims Paris)

No mention of women’s rights

Well I for one am glad Paris understands what The Suffragette were fighting for

I don't know how anyone can see things differently once they know all the facts. Unfortunately some people don't want facts and would rather shut their ears and live in "men can be women and women can be men" fantasy land.

Yes definitely. It's certainly not all young people driving this but I think that's why all these teenagers find it really hard to deal with these challenging views being expressed by their mothers. With social media you can pretty much avoid coming into contact with people you disagree with. They're really not used to hearing these things voiced by people they know and care about. It's a shock. Hopefully it plants a seed though.

Paris is an utter goady fucker.

So now instead of it being about celebrating a milestone in female history it's now become the Paris show. I bet she's revelling in it🙄

AbsintheFriends
No worries. Tbh i think hes embarrassed that his normally mild mannered mum has gone all shouty! He doesnt know i was an active radfem before he was born! Dh is with me though. Peak transed him with the Madigan stuff.

Such a narc.

Ereshkigal
With social media you can pretty much avoid coming into contact with people you disagree with. They're really not used to hearing these things voiced by people they know and care about. It's a shock
Totally agree

Luckily my husband, 17yr old son and the friends I’ve raised it with agree with me. Some of the friends had to deal with an obvious TW in their communal showers/changing room at their sports club.

Interestingly I’ve just brought it up (Vogue) in the car with DD2 and her best friend because of reading this and knowing my DD is really interested in the Suffragettes. She first said ‘don’t start mum’ but then her bf said ‘actually, I kind of agree with your Mum about that - you can’t change sex biologically and he could have voted back then’
In one tiny tiptoe egg shell discussion, and having a friend on side I might just have planted a seed....
I just can’t believe I’m having to justify it though - it seems so obvious to me.

April Ashley modelled in Vogue in the 1960s. If a person is claiming a 'first' now, they are about 50 years behind the times.

My 16 and 17 year old daughters nearly lost their shit with me when I told them that transwomen are not women. Literally couldn't understand why I would say or think such a thing. DH was kind of on the fence with it during the discussion.

Later that night, I bled after sex. I'm post menopausal - no periods for about 2 years. I actually cried and said to dh I've done my state exams crippled with period pains, I've bled through my clothes at work when I couldn't get to the bathroom, I've had a miscarriage which required a d&c, a delivery with a primary post partum haemorrage that nearly killed me, a 4th degree tear which was f-ing painful to say nothing of the worry about incontinence, 2 c-sections and the resulting scar, breastfed (it hurts!), used nearly every type of contraception with side effects to control my fertility, went through menopause and its delights - and now this. And that's just my obgyn history. But a man wearing a dress is a woman. He finally got it.

Rose Paris Lees is the first openly transgender person to feature in Vogue I think? Everyone thought April Ashley was a woman when she modelled in Vogue, it was only later that she was outed.

April Ashley was one of those very rare transwomen who passed.

This whole thing is like living in a parallel universe

My 16 yr old dd has connected with this issue mostly through instagram I think; she seems to follow quite a lot of accounts from young trans people documenting their 'journey' and has been heavily influenced by the angst and agony (which I have every sympathy with - it must be horrendous, but that's another topic.) I suppose it's not surprising that the 'transwomen aren't women' fact viewpoint is so unacceptable to her, given the very real suffering these people go through to get there. She only sees it in very close-up, personal terms, has no perspective on the wider politics of it all and doesn't want to consider them as it would be a betrayal. Far easier for her to judge her mother as an ignorant old harridan.

nineteenagain LM was the point at which my dh jumped fully on board too.

Naturalblonde - result! (We must celebrate the small triumphs )

pallisers I can't find the right words to answer your post but I'm holding out a hand and nodding in mute empathy and understanding.

It must be really hard if your family think you're hateful for being gender critical.

Fortunately my husband is a big ol' terf, and often he's the one who'll raise the topic about whatever the latest incursion on women is. And he listens and takes it on board when I have one of my half-angry, half-anguished rants. He's a good egg on this. If somewhat flatfooted - he will post stuff on facebook like the story about Laurel Hubbard with something like "That's a fucking bloke" on it. Oddly enough: zero rape threats ensued

One of my closest friends though...we just agree not to talk about it, because we only upset each other. She's completely "trans women are women, get over it", and can't understand why I've randomly apparently "turned into a bigot". It's tough.

100 years after women get vote, men work out how to totally eradicate the concept of 'women'. Well done them.

Yup this is what the article says to me. bravo men, bravo. Well played. And so many women agreeing with them. How depressing.