I stand corrected Lilly M can get pregnant

[panjandrumpyjamas]

I asked for a thread to be pulled as I thought I had made a mistake and that Lilly Madigan was in fact just joshing about being able to get pregnant but no...

Lily Madigan Dec 28
‏Womb implants are now possible. It's quite exciting. Expensive currently but yes if I wanted to in the future, reasonably I could get pregnant x
"I think you are unintentionally being transphobic. I can get pregnant. Not right now, which is true of many women. Please don't single me out" Lilly s own words.

twitter.com/madigan_lily/status/946555952303570944

I don t want this to be about LM as such but I think that some parts of the trans community have no idea of the medical implications involved in transition....

There's already been a TIF on Twitter offering her womb to TIMs - it may have been on one of Lily's threads.

And if / when it turns out that transplants don't work, will they expect the TIFs to carry the babies for them &a be grateful for the privilege???

Discrimination against trans people will still be illegal, but effectively discrimination against women (and lets face it how often are men discriminated against for being men) will have no comeback. How could it, when anyone can be a woman?

Exactly. In Canada (and staggeringly this particular justification was not made on the basis of the trans issue) a woman lost her case against sex discrimination when breastfeeding rights were removed because "some men can lactate"). Obviously the trans issue makes that case even stronger.

Hi the whole live uterus donation is highly unlikely. Education is the key here is one such irresponsible article . www.independent.co.uk/life-style/men-pregnant-womb-transplant-dr-richard-paulson-transgender-a8037201.html

If you actually look at the whole science behind uterus transplants. If you look at the science theory on how a male could get pregnant in THEORY it is highly complex and without any regard to the health of the fetus . www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-a-transgender-woman-could-get-pregnant/

The whole 'oh i will give you my uterus ' is without any understanding of the reality. According to the article 11 hours in surgery.

I think there should be more education of transpeople as to what they are doing to their biology. It seems that some are under the illusion that you can fuck around with hormones and surgery and blockers and it will all be ok....

You can not make an informed choice without debate.

It.is.impossible.

Very interesting post, ContemporaryPankhurst - that parallel between Paris Brown and LM is very apt and you’re quite right, it shows that LM is read as male and absolutely benefits from male privilege accordingly.

Those tweet figures are 😵 too.

And yes, of course you’re right about women being held to higher standards and scapegoated. Of course. Essentially victim blaming by the perpetrators of misogyny, as always.

The whole 'oh i will give you my uterus ' is without any understanding of the reality. According to the article 11 hours in surgery.

The trouble is that if they get them young, then they won't have had a chance to grow up and think about that.

I'm naturally a scaredy cat in physical ways (in others fearless) - but I was fine with the idea of a boob job etc. for a long time, then I had 2 children by (completely smooth, virtually painless, easy healing) c-section. And now I wouldn't go under the knife unless it was life-threatening - and I can't even articulate why really, I think I've just realised the seriousness of being cut open and stitched back up again

I agree that this 'transplanting uteruses into transwomen' thing is just misogynistic crap, which just serves to belittle the, quite frankly, amazing capacity of the human female body to gestate, give birth to and solely feed another human, and the connections that come with that. It perpetuates this idea that women are nothing more than incubators and if you give anyone a womb they will be able to have a baby. Apart from anything else it shows a worrying lack of basic biological knowledge. Maybe Lily was too busy giving her school shit about school uniform to listen in biology lessons, but she appears to think that pregnancy is just a case of putting an egg and and seed together in a little bag and a baby will magically grow!

I haven't rtft as the big vein Is starting to pulse in my forehead, but PLEASE can we stop using the term natal woman? It's as bad as cis woman; there are women and transwomen: both worthy of respect but NOT THE SAME. XX /XY. The end.
please don't come on and talk about the infinitesimally small percentage of people who have rare genetic conditions or my fucking head will explode.

I'm a woman. Don't need any additional information added there. 'Original and best' maybe (as they say in advertising)?

My factual posts to LM about what is and isn’t possible re. Uterus transplants and the poor success rates for IVF have been removed, quelle surprise , we can’t get rape and death threats removed but he can get scientific facts removed.

This 'transplanting uteruses into transwomen' thing is another (possibly inadvertent) effective tactical move by trans activists. It puts the onus on the objectors to prove a negative (to prove it's impossible) while having to wade through a sea of journals, paper etc gleefully being added to by trans activists that no one outside of the specialist field really understands. Pretty soon the people arguing and the bystanders don't really have a clue what any of it means. Thus it achieves its main purpose of diverting time and effort into a dead end.

It also has the fringe benefit of inevitably eliciting intemperate comments from the objectors which provide useful "look at these horrible people" ammunition.

www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/01/04/nhs-must-offer-transgender-men-egg-storage-can-parents-says/

Meanwhile, there are now calls for the NHS in England to fund the freezing of eggs of girls/women who want to trans to being men in case they later decide they want to have a child.

In the printed version the article appears under a double page spread feature on the crisis in the NHS.

So keeping their options open - "let's be a man until I fancy being a woman again to have a baby" and let the cash strapped NHS pay for it. FFS.

More excuses for the argument that it it's OK to let girls trans because they can always freeze their eggs in case they have an Oh dear moment. Yeah, like the success rate from frozen eggs is huge (not) for women, let alone transmen who have packed their system with male hormones.

Who are those eggs for? Once the eggs are harvested what happens to unwanted eggs?

The hard part in egg donation is finding the eggs. Fertility clinics need eggs to make money. Start by setting up the expectation/standard practice under the NHS then cut funding.

I note this is coming from the British Fertility Society, who whilst actively lobby to promote the funding of fertility treatments by the NHS, they are an organisation which isn't part of the NHS either.

Egg freezing as a technology is not very advanced even now, 21-22% pregnancy rate, plus a 12-13% chance of a live birth from a previously frozen egg. (HFEA figures from 2013-2014)

Current rules mean egg storage is currently licsensed for a maximum of 10 years. Perhaps cryopreservation of ovarian tissue may be a better option although this as currently provided for chemotherapy patients does not have great results either.
Of course if given testosterone treatment there is a recommendation for hysterectomy within 5 years of starting therapy: risks of endometrial Ca etc mean it is unlikely that keeping ones uterus 'just in case' will be a common response, especially if trans identified females start the process of transition at a younger age with only affirmative therapy permitted. Its also unclear how well a dysphoric young transitioner would cope with the hormonal therapy given to induce follicle development before egg collection. Or indeed how well the process would work in a young female body after the use of puberty blockers followed by a virilising process induced by testosterone.

Cant help thinking the whole thing is a bit of a Heath Robinson solution for the problem.

Surely it's very unlikely that young women will be fertile after being on puberty blockers stopping natural female development and then going straight onto cross sex hormones?

Egg freezing doesn’t result in as high a birth rate as embryo freezing. I think this should be made clear to trans men to allow them to find a sperm doner. I think in terms of wombs - stem cell research will mean that eventually all organs (except the brain) will eventually be ‘custom built’.

There is a strange theme of 'false hope' building here isn't there?

I think thats the basis of all of it really
magical thinking

So if Lily can have a functioning womb, can I have functioning wings? I always felt like I should be flying the blue skies. Coz why stop at wombs, let’s transplant from other species next, and mind you all on the NHS, coz feels.

Yes, my DD would love to be able to fly, she has expressed that wish for several years. I hope she never discovers wingsuit jumping.

Upthread someone mentioned the risks to the fetus. Ethically, that is one of the main considerations.

However, I suspect even here women’s hard-won rights to bodily autonomy would be used against them. Because if a man chooses to carry a pregnancy in an implanted womb with all the risks of associated hormone injections, then the argument would be how is that different to women choosing to carry a fetus to term with any number of risks or to terminate?

There is a difference yes, but how do you argue it without falling back on arguments about nature (which already go out the window with any number of reproductive interventions and women’s right to choose)

I am not trying to be provocative, just suggest that women’s gains can be used against them here too.

Look what Lily tweeted today... I really think Liam is trolling!

Anyone who thinks that pregnancy is just something that happens in a stretchy sack called a womb is an ignoramus.

They need to think about why the NHS - never the most generous funder of treatments - offers free dental treatment to women during pregnancy and for six months after birth. Because it's not just about some incubator that we carry in our pelvis, it's our whole damn bodies that are affected by pregnancy. Good luck replicating all of that with a male body

Yes! I have skin tags, extra hair in unnecessary places, gum disease, darker nipples and an aversion to coffee and mayonnaise when I’m pregnant. I don’t think they can at all be attributed to simply having a uterus.